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Next Conservative leader

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lofty evans View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 hours 3 minutes ago at 9:05pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Some excellent posts on this thread.

Just watching PMs questions...its an absolute joke ...working people asking for a decent payrise and this lot waste 100s of billions ...makes me sick and has anyone ever worked out the cost of all these MPs and Lords and the whole stinking set up.



PMQs is almost staged.  Opposition party’s have a particular number of questions to ask Slippery Sunak and they have to put their questions in, in advance, so that he has a chance to prepare and come up with his excuses.
The Tory MPs then waste the rest of the allocated time by telling Sunak how wonderful he is and asking him to either visit or thank their constituencies.  It’s a bit of a farce on occasions.

Honestly I'd have more respect if someone just got up and said to the midget hedgefund Moderna sneak to just go away. Stuff the ban...stuff the fine at least it's honest.


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 21 minutes ago at 8:47pm
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Some excellent posts on this thread.

Just watching PMs questions...its an absolute joke ...working people asking for a decent payrise and this lot waste 100s of billions ...makes me sick and has anyone ever worked out the cost of all these MPs and Lords and the whole stinking set up.



PMQs is almost staged.  Opposition party’s have a particular number of questions to ask Slippery Sunak and they have to put their questions in, in advance, so that he has a chance to prepare and come up with his excuses.
The Tory MPs then waste the rest of the allocated time by telling Sunak how wonderful he is and asking him to either visit or thank their constituencies.  It’s a bit of a farce on occasions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 19 minutes ago at 2:49pm
Slippery  Sunak attempting to divert attention  from Raab today by raising  transgender issue.
This is an important  and sensitive subject,  not to be used as a political  football.
His ludicrous admonishing  of those, taking industrial  action today, is frightening. Teachers , nurses, fire fighterscare totally  dedicated  individuals, who would do nothing  to hurt the welfare of students,  patients  and the general public. 
It indicates  however how fed up people are, to have to resort to this.

Far better for Sunak to attempt  to have a constructive  dialogue with those taking action,not just  to end the current  disputes, but to have a long term policy , for pay and conditions,  absent for the lastv13 years.

Finally if he is so concerned  about people's welfare,  what about the welfare of those bullied by Raab?
24 separate cases!
Yet another allegation  of misconduct, following  on after 
after Patel ,Braverman,  Johnson., Zahawi.....where does it end  ?
Sickening! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 49 minutes ago at 2:19pm
The energy companies have trebled cost of energy and make up excuses for the deceit.  Biden is already blasting EXXON of their 57 billion net profit ...its all about some bastard getting wealthier on the backs of Joe average.. 


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 51 minutes ago at 2:17pm
Some excellent posts on this thread.

Just watching PMs questions...its an absolute joke ...working people asking for a decent payrise and this lot waste 100s of billions ...makes me sick and has anyone ever worked out the cost of all these MPs and Lords and the whole stinking set up.


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 54 minutes ago at 12:14pm
Fair point, and I shouldn't have sidetracked really.

Your final paragraph I agree with much in and journalists such as Kuenssberg are more like talk show hosts and bloggers really; LK particularly is paid lots because she is on friendly terms with many politicians in the current leading party so gets lots of soft TV time with them. It's hardly political journalism as she and her like never hold them to account for anything. Reason I'm focusing on her is because she is the leading "political journalist" at the BBC at present. Marr was similar and Nick Robinson (who I actually quite liked) is actually a former Conservative Party Union President when a PPE student at Oxford! 

"It remains one of the great mysteries of my time that a government who have an ex chancellor who can "forget" to declare millions of earnings should decide the future of economic policy for the masses."

And let's not forget Truss, who possibly will go down as the worst Prime Minister in UK history. I've always though no-one in their right mind would want to be Prime Minister. Well, she's the prime example of that. It will always be a big mystery to me why people such as her and Johnson, who are so evidently unsuited for high leadership positions based on their track records and inherent character flaws, EVER were put in leading Ministerial roles, let alone being Prime Minister. That numerous other examples appear behind them, now including Zahawi, and that they simply resign before moving on to some other plush gig with no real punishment doesn't inspire much confidence in our current setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 58 minutes ago at 9:10am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

One helluva article here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/bad-economics-bbc-tory-austerity-uk-politics

For those interested in politics and economics, it is very much worth reading.

It was, yes. Basically finding inherent right-wing bias in BBC political journalism due to ignorance or deliberate simplification. If the investigation was thorough I hope it looked at the links BBC journalists have with the Conservative Party.

Metaphors have enormous power and are misused by politicians (and others) attempting to convey complex things that they themselves don't understand. I witnessed this with Johnson during Covid and thought van Tam's analogies not productive, even if people seemed to like them, presumably finding it comforting thinking about a pandemic like a football match. 

But ultimately, economics is difficult and boring to most, so they will only read sharp, punchy stories if at all. I am in this category. Journalists are making an entertainment product, like it or not, and so naturally will gravitate to avoiding long, boring, well-thought out conversations and arguments and chase the simple and catchy. So we have endless he said she said and gossip political stories, as this article/investigation also alludes to. The same also applies to science, of which I am well-aware, and is part of why nothing serious is being done about global warming. "Don't look up" nails this completely.

I would then also point out the rise of the journalist/celebrity politician as another factor. Take Gove, a former journalist. He came up with the soundbyte "had enough of experts". Why? So an ill-informed journalist then politician could wrest control the narrative from people who have literally spent their whole working lives understanding a single subject to an expert level. Or, if you like, he wanted to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. 

Interesting article and good points raised by you Dr M. I would just like to add that I can see a real difference in what van Tam was doing as opposed to the generalisation of journalists not being informed enough on Economics. 

You as a scientist, like van Tam, would probably have preferred more science than football games but I would point out that in a prolonged, daily brief about a deadly enemy among us some levity actually was needed & the comparison of it only being half time etc etc clarified the scientific message for most of us. 

Economic ignorance is no excuse for a serious journalist wanting to comment on government fiscal policy. It is tantamount to me being asked to prepare the Welsh team for Saturday's game. If you haven't done the hard yards of study & experience how can you possibly serve your listeners. Debt is not a dirty word of course but it has a World of difference in domestic and governmental situations. It remains one of the great mysteries of my time that a government who have an ex chancellor who can "forget" to declare millions of earnings should decide the future of economic policy for the masses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 8:54am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

One helluva article here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/bad-economics-bbc-tory-austerity-uk-politics

For those interested in politics and economics, it is very much worth reading.

It was, yes. Basically finding inherent right-wing bias in BBC political journalism due to ignorance or deliberate simplification. If the investigation was thorough I hope it looked at the links BBC journalists have with the Conservative Party.

Metaphors have enormous power and are misused by politicians (and others) attempting to convey complex things that they themselves don't understand. I witnessed this with Johnson during Covid and thought van Tam's analogies not productive, even if people seemed to like them, presumably finding it comforting thinking about a pandemic like a football match. 

But ultimately, economics is difficult and boring to most, so they will only read sharp, punchy stories if at all. I am in this category. Journalists are making an entertainment product, like it or not, and so naturally will gravitate to avoiding long, boring, well-thought out conversations and arguments and chase the simple and catchy. So we have endless he said she said and gossip political stories, as this article/investigation also alludes to. The same also applies to science, of which I am well-aware, and is part of why nothing serious is being done about global warming. "Don't look up" nails this completely.

I would then also point out the rise of the journalist/celebrity politician as another factor. Take Gove, a former journalist. He came up with the soundbyte "had enough of experts". Why? So an ill-informed journalist then politician could wrest control the narrative from people who have literally spent their whole working lives understanding a single subject to an expert level. Or, if you like, he wanted to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:51am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

One helluva article here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/bad-economics-bbc-tory-austerity-uk-politics

For those interested in politics and economics, it is very much worth reading.

Thank God for totallybiasedscarlet, and thank God for the Guardian!
Problem is even though in buy it every sat(observer sun), i don't have time to read it with all the HOUSEWORK i am doing these days.

How the hell does totally biased find time to read it, complete a full time teaching job, AND write a thesis on constitutional change every other day !

now I have met I understand ..hellua guy !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 10:38pm
One helluva article here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/bad-economics-bbc-tory-austerity-uk-politics

For those interested in politics and economics, it is very much worth reading.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

RR, you say we'd be skint. Here are some facts for you.

Wales has a £70Bn+ economy
We have a trade surplus
Our GDP per person is higher than Spain's
Our GDP per person would put us in the top quartile of nation states by that measure
We pay more in tax per person than New Zealanders do
We have 10x the population of Iceland
Wales's average wealth per household is the same as the UK average

All of the countries I mentioned are viable nation states. Whoever is telling you that an independent Wales would be skint ... is telling lies.

You have convinced my TBS. I still think that a collective Britain would be better only of course if it was efficiently governed along the PR route with a lot more devolution. The debacle surrounding HS2 for me is the last straw. I can only imagine what Wales could have achieved for transport infrastructure and green energy with an additional £5 billion. 

Thank you GPR. In fact, I've learned a great deal in recent years of Gwynfor Evans' ideas for Britain and why Plaid has had a long standing policy to form a different British Union. I agree that Britain's nations should act collectively. I agree that there should be a British Union. My beef is with the UK State as it stands. It's dysfunctional and delivers poor outcomes. Yes, folk could say things could be a lot worse ... heaven knows they might well get worse with these blydi Tories ... but then, they could be a lot better. My opinion is that the way forward is a British Confederation as I've said many times. I believe it's the right balance and a compromise that most can live with. Moreover, I think from a political and economic point of view it would be the most functional approach.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

RR, you say we'd be skint. Here are some facts for you.

Wales has a £70Bn+ economy
We have a trade surplus
Our GDP per person is higher than Spain's
Our GDP per person would put us in the top quartile of nation states by that measure
We pay more in tax per person than New Zealanders do
We have 10x the population of Iceland
Wales's average wealth per household is the same as the UK average

All of the countries I mentioned are viable nation states. Whoever is telling you that an independent Wales would be skint ... is telling lies.

You have convinced my TBS. I still think that a collective Britain would be better only of course if it was efficiently governed along the PR route with a lot more devolution. The debacle surrounding HS2 for me is the last straw. I can only imagine what Wales could have achieved for transport infrastructure and green energy with an additional £5 billion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 1:00pm
RR, you say we'd be skint. Here are some facts for you.

Wales has a £70Bn+ economy
We have a trade surplus
Our GDP per person is higher than Spain's
Our GDP per person would put us in the top quartile of nation states by that measure
We pay more in tax per person than New Zealanders do
We have 10x the population of Iceland
Wales's average wealth per household is the same as the UK average

All of the countries I mentioned are viable nation states. Whoever is telling you that an independent Wales would be skint ... is telling lies.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I voted green last time, if we had pr a lot more people would do so, i’ll prob vote labour under kier, not even sure what libs are offering these days they are so mute at the minute. Plaid a no go for me wales be totally skint if we went indy

No we wouldn't.
yes we would
No we wouldn't. The statement is demonstrably false.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 12:16pm
I know, some people are never happy - we’ve got 40 new hospitals, a thriving NHS, a thriving economy, trade deals all over the world and complete control over our borders and immigration.
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 11:28am
3 years ago today we officially left Europe , I can't believe the Eutopia we have experienced since ....what's really bugging me now is that 63% want to rejoin ...why , what is wrong with these people ...don't they realise they are living the dream Cool
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