Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Scott & Rhys
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Scott & Rhys

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 13>
Author
Message
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27202
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:



Don't forget experienced overseas coaches.


Yes. I'd like to know if that is part of the participation agreement. That regional coaches have to have gained their coaching badges in Wales.

Scott Johnson was the last overseas regional head coach wasn't he? He was appointed before the current participation agreement came in.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 45942
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (7) Thanks(7)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:


We'd be chuffed watching a Xmas derby with the O's without our Wales players (as is the case in Ireland).


The Irish players always play in the big inter provincial derbies

And unlike us they get to keep their best players, what irish provincial players play 9 times a year?. There is no need to worry about them playing for us only 9 times a year when they are in England in France !

 
I'm speakiing for myself here.
 
No correction from you (again) when evidence presented contradicts something that you have posted 'factually', to be honest any thread with you in full flow these days invariably doesn't go so well because you just fast forward through the bits that don't align or sit within you're view point...often scattering posters views with a cocktail of incredulity or disdain... many try (I and others have given up) to re-appraise and re-align a thread, but it just doesn't seem to be absorbed, and so it really just brings the debate to a grinding halt or worse.
 
You make some great and valid points, I like the alternate viewpoints to commonly held mis-conceptions, but to me, it has to be laced with a realisation and acceptance that some who post can have a better knowledge on any given aspect in that debate.
 
 
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27202
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 12:54pm
Mr Moffet's latest:

Quote The Truth behind WRU Central Contracts
At the outset I want to place on the record that I do not blame Sam Warburton for signing the WRU CC. Rugby is a professional sport and players have to do what is best for them. In particular Sam plays in the toughest position of perhaps any sport in the world, other than cage fighting, and it is sensible that he try and prolong his career.
I have read Alun Wyn Jones article this morning and was struck with the honesty and candour that he portrayed.
The telling bit of the article though was his statement that “It would have been advantageous with fewer games..........
This statement accords exactly with what I was told by an impeccable source associated with the Sam Warburton signing. One of the benefits offered by the WRU CC is an agreement that they will limit the no. of non-international games played in a season. This raises so many questions:
• The Regions can’t compete with this benefit as they need all their players playing. Although not a lawyer this does raise the spectre of using unfair dominant market advantage over a WRU member. Would be keen to hear a lawyers view.
• How does this make all the other professional players feel, slogging their way through 30+ games a season.
• As AWJ says, he wants to play rugby not sit on the side lines, presumably for match fitness.
• Which Region will tolerate part time players lent to them by the WRU.
• How can WRU sell TV rights knowing any stars it signs will not take a full part in the competition?
Finally, how do all 330 member clubs feel about the WRU using its dominant advantage to outbid one of its own regions for a player. Irrespective of where the funds have come from the cost of a single WRU contract equates to over £1,000 per club.
Back to Top
multinational View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 14 August 2006
Location: Here
Status: Offline
Points: 10516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote multinational Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:


We'd be chuffed watching a Xmas derby with the O's without our Wales players (as is the case in Ireland).


The Irish players always play in the big inter provincial derbies

And unlike us they get to keep their best players, what irish provincial players play 9 times a year?. There is no need to worry about them playing for us only 9 times a year when they are in England in France !

 
I'm speakiing for myself here.
 
No correction from you (again) when evidence presented contradicts something that you have posted 'factually', to be honest any thread with you in full flow these days invariably doesn't go so well because you just fast forward through the bits that don't align or sit within you're view point...often scattering posters views with a cocktail of incredulity or disdain... many try (I and others have given up) to re-appraise and re-align a thread, but it just doesn't seem to be absorbed, and so it really just brings the debate to a grinding halt or worse.
 
You make some great and valid points, I like the alternate viewpoints to commonly held mis-conceptions, but to me, it has to be laced with a realisation and acceptance that some who post can have a better knowledge on any given aspect in that debate.
 
 
 
Seconded. I haven't bothered responding, although utterly frustrated and gobsmacked by comments made, because I believe the debate is intended more as a monologue.
History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.
Back to Top
A Evans View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 23 March 2005
Location: Lan y Mor
Status: Offline
Points: 11309
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:


We'd be chuffed watching a Xmas derby with the O's without our Wales players (as is the case in Ireland).


The Irish players always play in the big inter provincial derbies

And unlike us they get to keep their best players, what irish provincial players play 9 times a year?. There is no need to worry about them playing for us only 9 times a year when they are in England in France !

I think I'm right in thinking that BOD hasn't played in an away fixture in the Rabo since wooly mammoths roamed the earth. Giving more control to the WRU over player release would be suicide in my humble opinion (although i can see why Sam has gone for it with his injury problems, playing 'club' rugby 6 or 7 times a season suits him).
We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 24709
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

how many games did they play including HC cup games and play off matches in total?

I'd wager a lot more than you put up (and you ignored the fact BOD and POC have had huge injury lay offs)

10 league games a season plus 6 hc games (minimum) plus 2 play off games

Is a lot more rugby than well get if the likes of scott and rhys leave all together , or can you not realise that?
so have the welsh players named.
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 16893
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:



yet the sides with central contracts have done far better than 3 of the welsh regions with no central contracts, so it doesn't hurt them in that respect does it?


As we've established, the provinces have a good relationship with their Union as they've brought in a model that works well for them. That model allows them to bring in quality overseas players to strengthen their squad, and they also play less tests than Wales remember, so have stronger squads for a larger part of the league season than sides like the Welsh (check Scarlets v Ulster fixtures in the last few seasons).

You're misled if you think signing 5 players on central contracts is going to benefit anyone in Welsh rugby apart from the likes of Derwyn Jones.


As far as your points in this post go, I agree with you. And the WRU have never - yet - offered the regions an acceptable CC deal.

But it's some way from that to thinking that CCs could never be the solution - the devil is in the detail, as always. If Lewis left and someone half sane took over at the WRU - who knows?

And BTW - as I know from having lived there for 3 years, Northern Ireland is a part of the UK - and as has been pointed out (but not responded to by anyone) I assume any tax breaks available to players in the republic are NOT available in Ulster (the 6 counties, anyway) - or do you think the entire Ulster squad is based in Dundalk for tax reasons? This has not stopped Ulster from strenghthening their squad with top-class SH signings such as Afoa, Diack, Pienaar and Nick Williams.

In short:

CCs work well in Ireland - IMO, anyway
the CCs offered by the WRU to date have been totally unsatisfactory (for the regions anyway)
CCs could potentially work in Wales, but ONLY if the WRU change their attitude and/or their personnel.

“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27202
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

CCs could potentially work in Wales, but ONLY if the WRU change their attitude and/or their personnel.



I'm inclined to agree, but if we had CCs, the rest of the participation agreement detail (player release money, no 4th international, etc) would have to be heavily weighted in our favour to soften the unrest that CCs bring. And we know what the chances of that happening are.
Back to Top
RedZep View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 December 2010
Location: Pembs
Status: Offline
Points: 4442
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedZep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 10:18pm
Joint contracts for me. 

Whomever the player is with pays their wage, basically. If both sides have a vested, financial interest then a Participation Agreement mutually agreeable to both sides will be far more achievable.
'' Know your three R's, son..... Rugby, Rock and Ridin'!! ''
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 14063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by RedZep RedZep wrote:

Joint contracts for me. 

Whomever the player is with pays their wage, basically. If both sides have a vested, financial interest then a Participation Agreement mutually agreeable to both sides will be far more achievable.


this kind of idea is what I have been suggesting all along.

Sorry but comments like Healsip only plays 10 league games a year plus HC games and plus play off games don't really stand as a good arguement when guys like North played 0 games for us this year and Foxy will play 0 games next year

I'd rather have a player for 10 league games, all our european games and any play off games than not have them at all

That's the arguement I'm making and people are twisting it to suit their view point

Genuine question what would you prefer 

option a ) we keep our best players in Wales and we get them for 10 league games a year, all hc games and all play off games

or 

option b) they leave to play in england or france

It's a no brainer if you ask me but everyone is entitled to their view point

ps the caveat being that our funding is not reduced and we then have more money to bring back welsh players and recruit class NWQ players to cover for when the test players are away (exactly what sides like munster leinster and as aberfan backed me up Ulster do even with the same tax rules as us)

I fail to see how anyone can think this is a bad idea

if so please explain and if you can convince me I'll admit I'm wrong (and yes Mr Chips) I will admit I'm wrong. I have done so many times, I fail to see how me giving a different view point derails a thread if anything it keeps it going. When every 1 agrees it dies off very quickly and becomes more like cheerleading than a rugby forum

I don't abuse anyone here, I don't slate coaches or refs , or call for players to de dropped and I take far more stick on here than 99% of people (no issue with that I expect when my views are different to others) 

I like and respect every one on here who posts but I will stand my views when I think they are correct


Edited by RR1972 - 28 January 2014 at 11:53pm
Back to Top
RedZep View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 December 2010
Location: Pembs
Status: Offline
Points: 4442
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedZep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by RedZep RedZep wrote:

Joint contracts for me. 

Whomever the player is with pays their wage, basically. If both sides have a vested, financial interest then a Participation Agreement mutually agreeable to both sides will be far more achievable.


this is what I have been suggesting all along.

Sorry but comments like Healsip only plays 10 league games a year plus HC games and plus play off games don't really stand as a good arguement when guys like North played 0 games for us this year and Foxy will play 0 games next year

I'd rather have a player for 10 league games, all our european games and any play off games than not have them at all

That's the arguement I'm making and people are twisting it to suit their view point

Genuine question what would you prefer 

option a ) we keep our best players in Wales and we get them for 10 league games a year, all hc games and all play off games

or 

option b) they leave to play in england or france

It's a no brainer if you ask me but everyone is entitled to their view point

ps the caveat being that our funding is not reduced and we then have more money to bring back welsh players and recruit class NWQ players to cover for when the test players are away (exactly what sides like munster leinster and as aberfan backed me up Ulster do even with the same tax rules as us)

I fail to see how anyone can think this is a bad idea

if so please explain and if you can convince me I'll admit I'm wrong

I have read endless reams of your guff, I haven't read this from you once. If I've missed the piece of hay in amongst the massive pile of needles then I apologise.

Even more apologies for quoting your original post as opposed to your edited version.


Edited by RedZep - 29 January 2014 at 1:40am
'' Know your three R's, son..... Rugby, Rock and Ridin'!! ''
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 14063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 11:58pm
no need to apologise, but I accept anyhow , very noble of you :)

My suggestion would seem to make sense as you point  it's rare I do . However  I feel I'm right on this matter
Back to Top
solihullscarlet View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 June 2008
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 7298
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solihullscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2014 at 11:59pm
Lol that's what I felt too. RR I think most people would agree with your last post.
#UniteAndFight against the crooked Pro12
Back to Top
Sosban bach View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 15 September 2012
Location: Obvious!
Status: Offline
Points: 5366
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2014 at 12:05am
The only chance we got of keeping these two is getting a new backs coach In as he's killing our game and killing our players. They will soon leave being forced to play this kicking nonsense no better prof than the lv last fri where Jordan kicked all shapes, its not who he is and he was made to look bad. Let them run or they'll run away, fact!
Back to Top
redeyes View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 12191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2014 at 9:30am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by RedZep RedZep wrote:

Joint contracts for me. 

Whomever the player is with pays their wage, basically. If both sides have a vested, financial interest then a Participation Agreement mutually agreeable to both sides will be far more achievable.


this kind of idea is what I have been suggesting all along.

Sorry but comments like Healsip only plays 10 league games a year plus HC games and plus play off games don't really stand as a good arguement when guys like North played 0 games for us this year and Foxy will play 0 games next year

I'd rather have a player for 10 league games, all our european games and any play off games than not have them at all

That's the arguement I'm making and people are twisting it to suit their view point

Genuine question what would you prefer 

option a ) we keep our best players in Wales and we get them for 10 league games a year, all hc games and all play off games

or 

option b) they leave to play in england or france

It's a no brainer if you ask me but everyone is entitled to their view point

ps the caveat being that our funding is not reduced and we then have more money to bring back welsh players and recruit class NWQ players to cover for when the test players are away (exactly what sides like munster leinster and as aberfan backed me up Ulster do even with the same tax rules as us)

I fail to see how anyone can think this is a bad idea

if so please explain and if you can convince me I'll admit I'm wrong (and yes Mr Chips) I will admit I'm wrong. I have done so many times, I fail to see how me giving a different view point derails a thread if anything it keeps it going. When every 1 agrees it dies off very quickly and becomes more like cheerleading than a rugby forum

I don't abuse anyone here, I don't slate coaches or refs , or call for players to de dropped and I take far more stick on here than 99% of people (no issue with that I expect when my views are different to others) 

I like and respect every one on here who posts but I will stand my views when I think they are correct

Or option C

We tell RL where he can stick his PA, go through the courts for the right to run our own ship as we see fit. 
The stadium may change, but the dream will remain the same!


Back to Top
Mrfwon View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 17 January 2008
Location: Basingstoke
Status: Offline
Points: 17176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2014 at 9:36am
Originally posted by redeyes redeyes wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by RedZep RedZep wrote:

Joint contracts for me. 

Whomever the player is with pays their wage, basically. If both sides have a vested, financial interest then a Participation Agreement mutually agreeable to both sides will be far more achievable.


this kind of idea is what I have been suggesting all along.

Sorry but comments like Healsip only plays 10 league games a year plus HC games and plus play off games don't really stand as a good arguement when guys like North played 0 games for us this year and Foxy will play 0 games next year

I'd rather have a player for 10 league games, all our european games and any play off games than not have them at all

That's the arguement I'm making and people are twisting it to suit their view point

Genuine question what would you prefer 

option a ) we keep our best players in Wales and we get them for 10 league games a year, all hc games and all play off games

or 

option b) they leave to play in england or france

It's a no brainer if you ask me but everyone is entitled to their view point

ps the caveat being that our funding is not reduced and we then have more money to bring back welsh players and recruit class NWQ players to cover for when the test players are away (exactly what sides like munster leinster and as aberfan backed me up Ulster do even with the same tax rules as us)

I fail to see how anyone can think this is a bad idea

if so please explain and if you can convince me I'll admit I'm wrong (and yes Mr Chips) I will admit I'm wrong. I have done so many times, I fail to see how me giving a different view point derails a thread if anything it keeps it going. When every 1 agrees it dies off very quickly and becomes more like cheerleading than a rugby forum

I don't abuse anyone here, I don't slate coaches or refs , or call for players to de dropped and I take far more stick on here than 99% of people (no issue with that I expect when my views are different to others) 

I like and respect every one on here who posts but I will stand my views when I think they are correct

Or option C

We tell RL where he can stick his PA, go through the courts for the right to run our own ship as we see fit. 
This is my prefered option as well, but it is a hell of a risk having the courts decide the future of Welsh rugby. Confused If it all fell through, it could cost the regions millions! Shocked
Guinness Pro 12 Champions 2017...get in!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 13>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.