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Abbey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 April 2014 at 8:21am
I know many will argue otherwise, but for me yesterday was a very sad day for sport with the chequebook Charlies excelling.

Man City will now win the Premiership and Toulon may retain the Heineken Cup.

There's neither justice nor romance when sporting teams whose success is manufactured by merely having far more money than the rest, succeed.

And there's a report out today showing the disparity in Formula 1 where Ferrari were awarded £80M prize money last season (they didn't even win the constructors championship) and Marussia had £6M for finishing last. Contrast this with the Premier League where Man Utd took £60.8m as Champions and QPR had £40m as bottom - a ratio of just 1.5 : 1.
On top of this, only 5 teams in F1 are allowed to sit on the governing committee (Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari and Williams).

In tennis, the top players are paid to appear in the tournaments outside the Grand Slams whilst the lesser players have to pay to enter. Hardly conducive to fair and equal competition.

There must be true sports left out there where taw talent prevails?



Edited by Abbey - 28 April 2014 at 8:23am
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KID A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 9:41am
Toulon have the 4th biggest budget in French rugby. The bulk of their money comes through sponsors, cafes, restaurants and merchandise, and the council.

To compare them with Manchester City is a bit bizarre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 10:16am
The common denominators are benefactors dominating in a de-regulated sport, with a governing body that has commercial advancement ahead of sporting integrity.

BPL, Top14, an F1 are impressive commercial juggernauts to be fair.

As for talent prevailing. Mmm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 10:22am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The common denominators are benefactors dominating in a de-regulated sport



The other end of the spectrum is Union owned teams controlling everything and having the power to move players about between teams and turn some sides into development sides. Getting the balance is rather difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 10:26am
Always been reasonably impressed by the NFL (to a point) in respect of bowing to the inevitable commercial realities but keeping a degree of fairness with draft picks etc.
Albeit that platform has been re-visited and tweaked umpteen times in the last 20 years to get where it is today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 11:21am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Toulon have the 4th biggest budget in French rugby. The bulk of their money comes through sponsors, cafes, restaurants and merchandise, and the council.

To compare them with Manchester City is a bit bizarre.


They're exactly like Man City. They remind me of Little Britain's Lou and Andy..
"I want that one"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Toulon have the 4th biggest budget in French rugby. The bulk of their money comes through sponsors, cafes, restaurants and merchandise, and the council.

To compare them with Manchester City is a bit bizarre.


They're exactly like Man City. They remind me of Little Britain's Lou and Andy..
"I want that one"



Talk me through how they are exactly like Man City.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 11:38am
Wish the Scarlets were a chequebook charlie team. That would mean being as successful as the teams mentioned rather than each season being a chore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Toulon have the 4th biggest budget in French rugby. The bulk of their money comes through sponsors, cafes, restaurants and merchandise, and the council.

To compare them with Manchester City is a bit bizarre.


They're exactly like Man City. They remind me of Little Britain's Lou and Andy..
"I want that one"



Talk me through how they are exactly like Man City.


Both teams have a proud history but mainly as "also rans". Man City have been perceived in the past two decades (or arguably longer) as the second team of Manchester.
Toulon have had scattered minor success over their 104 year existence.

Both were in the lower tiers of their respective leagues with precarious finances when taken over by millionaires (Man City were initially bought by Thaksin Shiniwatra but afterwards by an Abu Dhabi based investment group).
Toulon were taken over by comic magnate Mourad Boudjellal.

Man City's new investors started buying big name stars (an immediate £100M outlay on players), Toulon's owner convinced several of the world's top players including Tana Umaga and Gonzala Queseda to join what was a second division team.
Afterwards Man City started to accumulate some of the world's top names such as Carlos Tevez and Robinho
Toulon have acquired the services of Habana, Andrew Mehrtens, Jonny Wilkinson, George Gregan, Carl Hayman, Bakkies Bohta ......

Both have had former international managers in charge - Man City have had Keegan and Erriksson whilst Toulon took St Andre away France.

Now, you're either being obtuse or are a Man City fan.

As I've answered your question, perhaps you can tell me why Toulon and Man City are miles apart in their approach because I, frankly, neither agree nor can see any justification in your argument.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees both Man City and Toulon as plastic teams.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 2:05pm
Oh, I should add that Man City also have the 4th largest turnover in the Premier League, which is the position quoted for Toulon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 2:15pm
Thanks. some good info.

[QUOTE=Abbey]


As I've answered your question, perhaps you can tell me why Toulon and Man City are miles apart in their approach because
[quote]

I will.

-Manchester City's debt last year was £51m
-Toulon are debt free
-Manchester City's owner cleared £300m debt
-Toulon's owner has never done anything of the sort.
-Toulon's owner has put in around 600k a year since joined in 2005. That's probably not far off what some Welsh and English club benefactors put in.
-Toulon's operating budget was 9m Euros when he joined in 2005. It is now 22m Euros
-Toulon receive 9.2m Euros a year in sponsorship through companies like Volkswagen. That is a tremendous amount to get. They also get about 5m Euros from their council for stadium costs etc. That's 14.2m of money raised through good business nous and good working relationships with local organisations. Add on the merchandise, restaurants and ticket sales and THAT is what pays for the best players in the world - not Mourad Boujelall's wallet.
-Who pays Sergio Agearo's wages?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 2:37pm
Toulon had a deficit of €10m when Boudjellal took over in 2002 - the debt was such that they were demoted by the FNR. He cleared their debt (it's all relative as money in football is massive compared to rugby)

I agree that Volkswagen put a large amount into Toulon, but no sane person can say they put an equal amount into salaries than their competitors.

Boudjellal paid Gregan's €400,000 out of his own pocket and there are rumours that his claim of not putting much into the club is rubbish.

Basically, Toulon flout the French wage cap (as investigated by journalist Ian Moriarty) whilst we all know Man City circumnavigate the UEFA's toothless financial fair play rules.

Cheers for the debate, by the way. Not feeling well today and this has given me a bit of vaavoom.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 2:49pm
There's no doubt that money plays a big part in Toulon's success. But to have transformed the club from generating less than the current salary cap to 2.2 x the current salary cap is some achievement.

I think Mourad steps down next year, and the next president will unlikely be a multi-millionaire in the same bracket as him. So if they continue to turnover 22m Euros, win the league and the Euro cup - will they still be a sugar daddy driven plastic team?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

There's no doubt that money plays a big part in Toulon's success. But to have transformed the club from generating less than the current salary cap to 2.2 x the current salary cap is some achievement.

I think Mourad steps down next year, and the next president will unlikely be a multi-millionaire in the same bracket as him. So if they continue to turnover 22m Euros, win the league and the Euro cup - will they still be a sugar daddy driven plastic team?


I suppose it depends on whether they continue to sign the Dan Carters rather than the James Hooks. Obviously players go to where the success is but I find it strange that Toulon get the stars where Toulouse don't (as much).

Toulon aren't as plastic as Racing, I wholeheartedly agree!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:



I suppose it depends on whether they continue to sign the Dan Carters rather than the James Hooks. Obviously players go to where the success is but I find it strange that Toulon get the stars where Toulouse don't (as much).

Toulon aren't as plastic as Racing, I wholeheartedly agree!!



Where would you go if you were Dan Carter? Toulon or Toulouse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2014 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:



I suppose it depends on whether they continue to sign the Dan Carters rather than the James Hooks. Obviously players go to where the success is but I find it strange that Toulon get the stars where Toulouse don't (as much).

Toulon aren't as plastic as Racing, I wholeheartedly agree!!



Where would you go if you were Dan Carter? Toulon or Toulouse?


I'm not falling into your trap......

Whoever paid me the most money

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