Next Conservative leader
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Topic: Next Conservative leader
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Subject: Next Conservative leader
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 9:10am
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With Boris' grip on the keys to No 10 slowly slipping who do members think have what it takes to take over until the next general election. I think Rishi, a poster boy not long ago, is out of the running. I have heard a few names thrown around but would introduce another Tobias Ellwood. Ellwood has shall we say an interesting past as a browse of Wikipedia will confirm. One thing which stands out for me is that he has been a consistent critic of Boris Johnson and his standards of behaviour. Of course he is no buddy of Boris' so does not owe him a cabinet post etc. Also, as a former military man, he seems to talk sense when asked his opinion on International affairs. I look forward to hearing the views of my forum colleagues as always.
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Replies:
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 9:33am
| Mercer is my pick but elwood is v similar tbh |
Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 9:41am
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Not an inspiring list, I'd go for Hunt, Elwood, Wallace or Tugenhadt. I should stress that I never have, nor will I ever vote Tory !
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Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 9:45am
Ellwood has called for the UK to rejoin the single market, something wildly unpopular among the conservative members, so I don’t think he has a chance. What I do hope is that the next leader is from the ‘One Nation’ group of Tories. As much as I don’t particularly like any group of Tories they are so much better than having someone like Truss or one of the other nutters the ERG would back as leader.
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GPR - Rochester wrote:Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 10:06am
| Elwood wants boots on the ground in the ukraine. That’s a bit of a worry, hunt or truss seem likely? |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 11:20am
I knew that Ellwood was a remainer but I thought he was on record as saying that we should not go back on that decision.
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Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 11:30am
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You do see Johnson's skill, such as it is, in that none of the cabinet are really decent candidates at all. Selecting them for loyalty rather than talent means he is not as strongly challenged as could be. It has meant the country as a whole is governed far more poorly but there you go, the Conservatives knew exactly what they were getting when they made him their leader. Here's a scary thought... imagine Priti Patel as PM.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 12:21pm
| Gove is v capeable just an odd bod. Patel is a genuine nasty bit of work. I’d back burnham or namdy to beat any of them but kier is 50/50 |
Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 1:26pm
This is paywalled but the headline shows Ellwood wanting to rejoin the single market (said only 4 days ago). https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/01/britain-should-rejoin-eu-single-market-ease-cost-living-crisis/" rel="nofollow - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/01/britain-should-rejoin-eu-single-market-ease-cost-living-crisis/
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Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 1:44pm
How very dare they !
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Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 05 June 2022 at 6:02pm
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Patel would be a disaster for the Tory party but a gift for labour. Elwood is a sensible option and the Tory party needs to make a sensible selection following the appointment of BOJO - who to be fair provided them with a landslide win in the last GE and got Brexit through, but mostly on manifestos based on broken promises and lies. Unfortunately for the Tory party his lack of morals and his inability to keep control of those around him is costing them dearly at the moment and is crippling the party at a time. When they need to be in full control. |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 9:12am
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So we have a choice of someone who is going to reduce taxation immediately or someone who will do it as soon as he can. Well that is really helpful to those in society who cannot afford to eat properly and look ahead with dread to what the Autumn/winter brings. In addition our NHS and social care system is broken & guess what who suffers????? I have personal, recent experience of trying to help our elderly neighbours who are reaching the stage where they cannot safely look after themselves. My wife met one of the social services team & explained what help we were giving them with hygiene, medication & meals which we felt should be supplied by a social care system to be told that not a lot was available due to lack of staff/resources. people all over the country are waiting hours for ambulances to arrive, thousands are being given urgent A&E treatment in ambulances in car parks which contributes to the wait for other vulnerable people & all the while we have two tory MP's who are arguing about when is the right time to cut taxes and reduce the cost of the State. FFS wake up and see the reality of where being one of the top 5 richest countries in the World has got us to - rampant inflation, NHS & social care system broken almost beyond repair, food bank usage at his highest level ever & we have muppets in our government who tell us we have never had it so good!!!!! We need a government in waiting to stand up and give us some real levelling up policies at the same time spelling out the terrible truth that you cannot have World class education, NHS & social care in a society where people are living longer without paying for it. Rant over!!!!!!
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 9:28am
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The demographics will see the situation get worse as the baby boomer generation passes through the population. The ratio of working people to retired used to be more than 1 to 1. With improved life expectancy and no great increase in the State Pension Age, I’ve seen estimates where there’s been at least 3 retirees to every 1 worker. Admittedly, this was before many over the State Pension Age decided that it suited them to continue working, or had no choice but to do so. The only way that you can redress that balance when the birth rate is so low is by immigration. Being the 5th wealthiest country in the world ought to help that process, provided entry into the country isn’t impossible/close to impossibly difficult. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 9:44am
| Truss it is then that will be a disaster |
Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 10:30am
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There is a petition organised by Lord Cruddas, one of Boris' cronies and a Tory party funder, to have Boris' name on the ballot paper. The parallels with Trump are incredible. He lost an election but tried to find a way to win it. He polled over 70 million votes, how could he lose ? Conveniently forgetting of course that Hilary Clinton won more votes than Trump and lost. Will we see Boris rise again ? Despite the fact that he's gone as PM, the Priviliges Committee must act, the investigation into the money he promised Arcuri, and the threat to national security he posed when he slipped his personal protection guys to meet the Russians in Italy MUST be investigated. Otherwise I fear that he may rise again.
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Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 11:02am
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I have no faith in either. Sunak promises not to reduce taxes immediately (when we are in the middle of a cost of living crisis) but did step down just before BOJO was voted out of office, although he will always be tarnished by serving under and supporting him for so long. Truss comes across as someone who will say or promise just about anything to get noticed or to gain votes (bit like BOJO). She seems happy to fire bullets at others and to stoke up tensions with other people in high office, just what you don’t need during a global cost of living crisis. Her negotiation skills as the trade secretary weren’t up to much - pork markets with the Middle East and a deal with Australia over another meat product - both worthless, undermining the farming industry which lost so much funding as a result of brexit, and both embarrassing when you consider the Tory parties pledge to become carbon neutral by 2050. It’s interesting see that BOJO appears to be through all his weight behind anyone but Sunak (As he had the cheek to resign, and has now started taking swipes at the treasury - the very department that he’s championed for “keeping the economy going throughout the pandemic “. I too am a little worried that he may try and run again for leader in the future. He, like Trump, just believes that he has a god given right to hold high office and to trash the standards and establishments that have stood for hundreds of years, on the back of the delusion that people have given them a mandate to do so. Hopefully the parliamentary standards commission will find that he did mislead parliament (probably easier to do now that he’s no longer leader and hence no longer judge and jury), that would then mean that he would have to resign as an MP, and hopefully be banned from running again.
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Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 12:44pm
Social care is probably the biggest problem the country faces, but only a minority of the country has to deal with it and so politicians (including the last Labour government) have decided that it’s easier to do nothing about it. However it has become steadily worse over the last decade and has now reached crisis point. The problems with social care are also heavily impacting the NHS (as people can’t be discharged from hospitals as there are no carers available), and contributing to the shocking waiting list and A&E response times. While money won’t solve everything it’s blindingly obvious that enough of it will solve most problems (if carers are paid less than Amazon workers why would someone become a carer). There’s a real debate to be had about if it’s fair to tax the young more to fund the social care of the elderly, or if some type of inheritance / wealth tax, or higher taxes on private pensions, are fairer (and realistic) ways of paying for it. However to pretend that tax cuts is what we need is absurd. We need tax rises to fund increased social care - what taxes need to rise is what Sunak and Truss should be debating. It should also be noted that while the Tories talk about tax cuts growing the economy, sorting social care would probably have a much greater economic impact. How many hours of work are lost each year because people (mostly women) have to care for their elderly parents? Getting carers to care, and allowing the children of elderly people to work would have a much greater economic impact than any tax cuts. And yet this government won’t do a thing because of ‘small state’. The unbelievable thing however is that Labour has no real alternative plan (or at least haven’t actually said what their plan is).
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Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 1:52pm
I agree with much of what you say however, 1. pay for carers needs to rise so that we can recruit more. Perhaps we need to allow some level of immigration so that we can recruit outside of the UK. Many carers have repatriated as a result of Brexit. 2. I'm not sure that I agree with tax rises, or atleast we must very v=careful where that money is raised. Many face th eat/heat quandary, and whilst we don't necessarily need heat at the moment, that need will return, so to speak, when the winteer arrives. There is also, by all accounts, going to be another hike in energy prices before the next winter. 3. Long term, we really must invest in nurses doctors and health care workers generally. 'The wealth of an economy depends on the health of its workers'. The Tories are still blaming Labour on this one. It will be a shock to some tories when they realise that they have been in power for the last 12 years. It takes about 3/4 years to recruit and train a nurse, and about 5/6 years to train and recruit a doctor. So in 12 years they could have trained 2 doctors and 3/4 nurses. (You get my drift). 4. As many have pointed out, we have inflation and pay for workers has been realatively low for a number of years. So this particular round of inflation has not been wage led it seems. |
Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 4:11pm
I’ll reply to your points in the order you made them: 1 - absolutely agree that carers pay needs to increase (that’s why I made the point about them being able to earn more at Amazon), but to do that you have to have either more money in the system, or less carers. Clearly there’s already too few carers so more money needs to be poured into the care system. Of course allowing immigration is part of the solution, but we can’t rely on just that. 2 - I’ve explained in point 1 why I think more money needs to go into the care system, but to do that you either need more government borrowing or higher taxes. I think government borrowing should only be done either to invest, or for one off events (such as covid). Therefore the only other way to achieve a pay rise for carers would be increasing taxes. Clearly they should be increased in a way that targets high earners, and not those who are struggling with increased energy bills. 3 - Absolutely that should be done, and should’ve been done over the last decade. However training doctors and nurses takes time, and won’t solve the current backlog. Training care workers takes a lot less time, and could make a substantial difference to the amount of time it takes to clear the current NHS backlog. 4 - Completely agree.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 July 2022 at 5:44pm
The only way to sort is to go full logan run! Adios folks was nice knowing you
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Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 7:50pm
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I think I agree with Sunak that we probably shouldn’t cut taxes before sorting out inflation. I have asked friends how cutting taxes (AKA giving working people more money per month) would help limit impact inflation and no one can give me a good explanation how it would - anyone on here want to help me out? I get the sense that Liz Truss is a nutter and one of those really annoying Tories who can rile up her crowd and her base but is actually a bit of a moron. I tend to disagree with posters on here as to what the biggest problem is and I’d say it’s U.K. wide productivity - and I think the biggest barriers to that are Housing supply, specifically in the South East of England, and low fertility/population growth. I don’t think the country wants more mass migration (at least enough of the population that votes doesn’t) and fertility policies don’t seem to work without a mass rediscovery of an old religion. What I’m saying is Sunak or Truss need to build some houses in Surrey or everyone will have to become Mormons. ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 8:13pm
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Sunak would be the youngest PM since 1812 ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 8:43pm
| BBC 1 Tonight 9PM our next prime minister debate with our two candidates |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 26 July 2022 at 2:39pm
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Don't let them pull the same trick as before - the Tory party will cut taxes for the rich, but refuse to do anything (much) to help the lower paid. "Levelling up"? You could have fooled me - "levelling down" is what it looks like on the ground. Politics these days seems all about slogans, not policies. Empty words. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 26 July 2022 at 3:34pm
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In other news: a Welsh wine importer has moved to... France! Daniel Lambert, who supplies Marks & Spencer, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, is moving to Montpellier in https://www.theguardian.com/world/france" rel="nofollow - France later this week with his wife and two teenage children. There he will set up a French company to export back to his own company in Wales. He said the only way he could get around the “incredibly complicated” paperwork for importing alcohol was to establish a French company to export into the UK, and do the administration in the EU himself.... “It is absolutely incredible that in the 21st century people are being, in effect, barred from importing from Europe unless they pay brokers lots of money,” he said. He described the UK government’s claims that Brexit was done as “fatuous”, as many small- to medium-sized businesses could not cope with trade barriers that now exist for anyone trading with Europe. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/26/british-wine-wholesaler-leave-uk-over-post-brexit-paperwork" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/26/british-wine-wholesaler-leave-uk-over-post-brexit-paperwork ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 26 July 2022 at 3:38pm
Cutting VAT by 5% will not increase inflation as it cuts all products across the board. ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 26 July 2022 at 7:47pm
So thinking there is that with everyone having to spend a decent chunk of their money on energy soon, they then won’t be able to spend that on other parts of the economy cause it’s going on a fixed cost - so reducing VAT would help people continue spending money out and about and offset the reduction that will likely happen anyway. Sounds plausible. I guess the definition of VAT is that these things aren’t essential so would be a weird place to start but I sort of understand the logic. ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 28 July 2022 at 12:07pm
I'm pretty sure that energy and most foods are essential.... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 28 July 2022 at 12:13pm
the majority of food that we buy in supermarkets is VAT free. but the process of production and delivery isn't so the prices go up because of this.
By making an overall cut of 5% on VAT it will reduce overheads, thus reducing the cost of foods. To beat inflation we need to have more money in our pockets to stave off recession. I can't stand Truss (or Sunak for that matter), but she is right on this. we need to spend our way out of recession. There's been that old age line of thinking, the best time to invest is when growth is slowing as it produces more growth. ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 03 August 2022 at 7:44pm
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So we are down to 2 candidates, one who has stated that we can’t afford tax cuts and public sector pay rises close to the inflation rate and another who is promising everything but without any clear vision of where these promises will come from and how we will fund them, she’s already had to do a u-turn on one of her key promises. We are doomed either way.
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Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 03 August 2022 at 10:43pm
| Truss is Johnson 2 1/2: The smell of cheese. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 12:01pm
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And did Truss actually say that Brexit had caused no disruption? Even Rees-Mogg admitted he can sometimes acknowledge reality. I just don't really understand why they aren't held to account for their blatant lying. I hoped it would end with Johnson but how naive I was and we are now looking at the realistic possibility of someone just as bad. Their whole Thatcher-worshipping cult is just weird and I also look forward to their next wave of imagined enemies who they steer everyone to blame for their own failings. The EU, the French, the poor, the woke, intellectuals (I can see why they dislike these in particular), the Russians, the Chinese...
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Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 12:08pm
Its not about reality in general Dr M its all about their current reality. Currently it satisfies both candidates to appeal to the grass roots members who Margaret Thatcher remains by a very long way the most popular leader since the war. The blue rinse, Kent brigade as I "lovingly" refer to them.
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Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 11:12pm
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Truss tonight claims that a recession isn’t a forgone conclusion, she must have some amazing plan up her sleeve if she thinks that the Bank of England’s prediction can be proven wrong. Nearly every other nation in the world is claiming that they are heading into a recession but it’s not inevitable that Britain is according to good old Liz Truss. The Bank of England raised interest rates yesterday, and that will affect people who have mortgages and are already struggling with paying for their energy and heating. I really feel for the younger generation who are maybe trying to move onto the property ladder or have just taken that leap in the past 12 months or so. As things stand, we could be heading back to the eighties when people were just about able to pay off the interest of the borrowing let alone pay off the money borrowed. I see lots of repossessions over the next 12 months or so as people really struggle.
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Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 12:08am
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Honestly think Truss might be the last Tory PM ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 7:36am
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I’d take that as a side effect of the past 12 years of austerity and underinvestment in anything that benefits anyone other than the wealthy, and 18 months of sleaze and corruption under BOJO. Unfortunately though, having the Tories in power for another 2 years can cause the country a huge amount of hurt (financially).
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Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 8:06am
They're just so uncaring. Their route to power is to whip up fear and anger and put enough low income people off voting in the first place. With backing from the Mail and Sun able to cast opposition in the worst light and also skim over their own lies, hypocrisy and corruption. Things do change but the understandable attitude of "they're all the same" or "there's no point in voting" and public apathy is exactly what they want and have likely actively fostered. I'd never heard the phrase gaslighting until Johnson's Government which says something.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 10:58am
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Thought sunak spoke sense truss is worse than bojo a feat in it”s self
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Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 11:57am
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Odd to see honesty from a Tory, but here is Sunak admitting that the Tories moved money from poorer areas to richer (Tory voting) areas. Unbelievable that he actually thought it a good thing to say in front of cameras. If Labour can’t make an attack ad from this, then they’re more incompetent than I thought! https://twitter.com/rewearmouth/status/1555475661917421568?s=21&t=fqzO_NfciZvHcSU-Jr3uTQ" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/rewearmouth/status/1555475661917421568?s=21&t=fqzO_NfciZvHcSU-Jr3uTQ
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 7:02pm
| Starmer found to have broken the MP code of conduct 8 times. |
Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 9:46pm
------------- I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1 |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 11:02pm
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 August 2022 at 11:04pm
and employment options get more funding than places like pontyberem?? It’s shocking how cardiff centruc the wa is tbh. We should all get a fair share not just urban city centres
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Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 06 August 2022 at 10:35am
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Hows the welsh economy looking ? Is the WAG still running our only airport into the ground? ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 06 August 2022 at 1:24pm
The key word in what Sunak said was “deprived urban areas”. There clearly is a lot of wealth in cities, but some parts of inner city London have the highest level of child poverty anywhere in the country. Had Sunak said he was taking money from ‘wealthy urban areas’ to poorer towns / rural areas then that would be fair enough - and should be encouraged. But that isn’t what he said. He said he was moving money from deprived urban areas to “areas like this” - referring to a wealthy constituency in the shires. That, in my opinion, is despicable.
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Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 06 August 2022 at 9:32pm
| Not many votes for the Tories in deprived urban areas like!!!! |
Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 07 August 2022 at 6:16pm
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So Liz Truss is now saying that on top of un-funded tax cuts she isn’t ruling out more social funding support to help the most financially disadvantaged. This woman changes her mind and her PM candidacy manifesto on a daily basis, even Kay Burley asked her for the real Liz Truss to please stand up - as she is known for u- turning on nearly every political decision she makes. That is a big concern going forward, if she can change direction so quickly then she could do the same as soon as she is elected (if she is successful). She will promise just about anything to gain the support of the 150k members of the Tory party, who have the power to unleash her on us all. As it has already been mentioned, she is like BOJO reincarnated, promise the earth and deliver very little.
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Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 07 August 2022 at 8:44pm
Literally a pound shop Boris. Likes a photo op, will wave the flag and shout “believe in Britain” and then completely fudge it when any difficult decisions need making. At least Boris Johnson could crack a joke. Her idea of charisma is dressing up in a Thatcher costume. ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 08 August 2022 at 11:46am
| Let’s be honest, there isn’t a single politician in the country that people wouldn’t say is another Boris if they run for pm. It’s a no win situation if you’re not a Tory. |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 09 August 2022 at 2:41pm
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Both candidates are basically trying to appeal to the Tory membership - mainly wealthy men who live in SE England. It's obvious that what 'most' people want would include these: 1. help with fuel bills (eg capping the increases, maybe) 2. improved public services (NHS, education, transport) It's also obvious that 'cutting taxes' is far more useful to the wealthy than to average earners and below, so that is of no use to most voters - but it may appeal to the Tory members. So, basically, we ought to be having a general election where matters of concern to most of us could be debated between the parties - but that isn't what's on offer. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 09 August 2022 at 3:32pm
Totally agree. Anytime a Tory leader is forced from office due to losing the support of his MP's we should have a general election. However that may be far too simplistic as most of the Tory MP's do not the scruples to risk losing their cushy £80K per annum regardless of how much of a liar the PM is.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 09 August 2022 at 4:38pm
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 11:09am
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the issue is the unwritten constitution. whilst the rhetoric is we vote for our local MP, we really don't though. We vote for who we think would be better leading the country. GE's are all about the popularity of the leaders. I'd say that the majority of voters are dumb and lazy. not many would read the manifestos, most would never interact with their local MP. A lot would just look at the party name and logo and put a cross in that box for how they are feeling at the time of voting... So IMO we definitely need a GE, because Truss will be the next PM voted by 0.001% of the population or 0.002% of people of voting age... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 1:01pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 2:27pm
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Where the he'll is Labour and Kier Starmer? They should be all over the tories making easy political hay. Not on telly not in the papers not on social media. They are no longer the Labour Party more like Lazy party. Are they all on holidays at the same time? They should have rostered their top shadow ministers so the there’s at least two available for interviews and comment. I am in despair at the state of British governance. ------------- Keep the faith |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 2:51pm
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 3:21pm
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Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 3:27pm
have a look at GMB this morning and see the contrast in attitude's to the crisis between james cleverly and martin lewis.
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Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 11:28am
Dont forget sme's most of whom were wiped out by the pandemic....whilst the corporate behemoths grew ever larger.....politicians on all sides dont mention sme's anymore....Yet theyre the biggest empoyers in the country and pay far more proportionally to the treasury and councils in licenses, taxes and so on than the big sharks ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 6:23pm
The difference with those leadership campaigns was that they were taking place solely for political party reasons and when the country was in a fairly stable position, so there is no comparison with right now. We have had 6 month of save top dog politics, whilst the nation falls/sleepwalks into its biggest recession/financial crisis in almost 70 years. We have a PM who has now had all powers relinquished so no one is able to make any decisions right now (over financial support for the most needy). By the time the next PM is elected it will be too late for most of the people struggling at the moment.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 7:45pm
| Truss has pronised all sorts of goodies hasn’t she? Rest assured we we won’t be getting a snap ge so pointless getting worked up about it, even kier can’t lose the next election to this lot! |
Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 12 August 2022 at 1:00pm
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So Liz Truss has gone public about not wanting to issue any more windfall taxes on energy companies, the very energy companies who have made even greater profits in the past 2 months than they did before Sunak taxed them (whilst chancellor following pressure to do so by labour and the Lib Dems). She declared that profit should not be seen as greed or a dirty word, but when millions are seeing their hard earned wages going on just surviving it’s completely insensitive to say such things and to rule out taxing the profits they are making from this energy crisis.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 12 August 2022 at 2:14pm
| The energy companys are making a fortune just wait untill winter hits, grim times ahead |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 12 August 2022 at 7:01pm
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Truss would be a laugh as PM, she actually could be worse than Johnson. Simultaneously criticising the civil service for being woke and having rising anti-semitism (no evidence for either but an amusing paradox), likening the Jewish faith as inherently Conservative (a weird generalisation), having to back track on her own press releases as "misunderstood", she will say literally anything to get votes. Her actual policies are as empty as her head.
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Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 13 August 2022 at 12:39am
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I couldn’t agree more, she is a worse option for the country than Boris Johnson (I can’t believe that we are saying that). She hasn’t got the swagger, confidence and electability of Johnson, and as a result will not be able to command the amount of support he got from his ministers, she will be a sitting duck for the Tory party as soon as she messes up. She appears to look more like M Thatcher every time she takes to the stage, she dresses like her and it will only be a matter of time before she starts using her quotes, there is nothing original in her or her policies.
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Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 13 August 2022 at 1:35am
Truss defending the poor energy monoplies against the criticism of the masses in fuel poverty sums up the horrendous status quo...The way they mis use to language to describe this as some kind of free market competition? These are monopolies who pay less as a percentage in tax than average joe....Appalling morally bankrupt politicians paid off by corporate lobbyists profiteering to line each others grubby pockets....The truth is energy / utilities should have ever been privatised. Same with BT too....How can they call that it healthy competition when they own all the phone lines? ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 13 August 2022 at 11:50am
Openreach ‘own’ all the lines. There’s no monopoly there’s dozens of broadband providers.
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Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 13 August 2022 at 10:24pm
Which is as you know 100% owned by bt ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 14 August 2022 at 4:26pm
So it would be better for many different companies to maintain the U.K. fibre network. Can you imagine the logistical chaos.
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 16 August 2022 at 11:58am
the issue isn't the ownership of the network. it's the fact that suppliers have to rely on openreach to fix problems and they are poo. Also for suppliers to actually get their kit into exchanges, they have to jump through so many hoops. ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 16 August 2022 at 12:40pm
BT have been fined billions in total over the past few years for showing favouritism towards openreach and a sub standard service to their competitors...The whole thing is a farce. BT and openreach should not be involved in the free market at all. ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 16 August 2022 at 11:40pm
Favouritism to openreach? So who aren’t they showing favouritism to? You said there’s a monopoly with openreach now you’re saying there’s other companies.
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Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 17 August 2022 at 3:46pm
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During lockdowns I was starting to think there's a substantial section of the Conservative party who actively hate the majority of people in the UK and see them as expendable (e.g. "let the bodies pile high"). Now, I am almost certain they do with Truss's views on UK workers' lack of graft (also infamously within Britannia Unchained she co-authored where "Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world"*) and Sunak saying we should be "much tougher on our welfare system to get people off benefits and into work", despite of course Johnson boasting about record unemployment and that there are many reasons people may be on benefits, e.g. health, not to mention jobs not being where the people are, or lack of skills required etc. All the while the wage gap increases, just search for CEO versus median worker salaries, and see how happy they are for companies to have massive profits, pay out massive bonuses to bosses and shareholders then get incredibly aggressive with any thoughts of lower-income workers to have pay rises. I understand their views are aimed at their core voters but they pander to the rich whilst fueling hate and blame as distraction to get enough votes to continue. Also, the NHS is in a serious state where ambulance waiting times are through the roof and it is genuinely at breaking point, in fact it's beyond functional at present. Has this come up as a major concern in these hustings or their leadership campaigns? Again, I simply have to conclude the Conservative party literally do not care. *This is alleged to have been written by the intellectual colossus that is Dominic Raab. A quick search reveals Brits have average working weeks above average in the EU. |
Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 17 August 2022 at 4:36pm
| Doc the country is broken my mother in law who's 95 fell monday morning at home my wife phoned for an ambulance to be told 4/5 hour wait the delta doctor came before ambulance(which was then cancelled) she checked mum over and told my wife not to send her to hospital as all she will do is deteriorate and if she is continent now she won't be when she comes out,The cost of living crisis is going to lead to poll tax type riots again only this time unlike where thatcher used the police to quash them the people in the police are facing similar hardships to the rioters and may not have the heart to crush them all in all the tories have taken us backs years. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 7:23am
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It's truly awful ladram and I'm sorry to hear that. I just don't understand why there aren't riots yet over this, or the almost total lack of recognition on climate change, which also hasn't been a factor at all for either candidate. The public seem to have just accepted both and are not demanding solutions. I know the increased cost of living has been big, but this then turns into their tax policies towards business. I.e. nothing that directly impacts. A German friend told me the British suck an enormous amount of damage up without protest... and we do have a reputation for stoicism, pragmatism and just getting on with things but the NHS situation would be unacceptable in any other leading country. In part our media is at fault, as this should be pushing the seriousness of these situations weekly. I think our "optimistic" politicians are deluded liars advocating cakism to a public more than happy to stick their heads in the sand and discuss largely trivial culture wars stoked by the Conservatives or superficial personality differences, akin to celebrity gossip culture. Perhaps many actually are unwilling to undergo any sacrifices to improve the lives of others in the UK, could that be the true legacy of Thatcher and something the current Conservatives exploit to retain power? It's a depressing thought if you consider the sacrifices needed to combat climate change, and the effects of this if we do next to nothing, but I do wonder.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 9:35am
| The nhs is in a mess in wales england and scotland. 3 nations whose health care is under 3 diff political parties. You can point out the funding comes from westminster but there clearly issues of mis management by all 3 governments. I think the torys are useless but let’s be honest welsh labour and the snp are no better |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 1:02pm
The NHS deserve pay rises not the ones striking now.
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 4:35pm
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just want to say that the majority of EU governments contribute more to their health services than we do... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 5:10pm
So do you believe railway workers (most of whom are on <£37000) deserve 10% pay cuts? Because that is what 3% pay rises at a time of 13% inflation (what it will be in a few months) is. 10% pay cuts are the equivalent of them working 5 weeks of this year without any pay at all. Clearly NHS workers deserve pay rises but that doesn’t mean that railway workers don’t. And if you’re asking where the money is going to come from - I suggest the train operators and network rail reduce dividends and managerial pay. And as for public sector pay rises - I suggest the government dramatically increase taxes on the very wealthy, as well as on excessive profits.
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 18 August 2022 at 5:28pm
Rail workers aren’t paid so shabbily. I know exactly what they’re on. I suppose they can’t help it they have militant wannabe Del Boy union leaders.
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Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 1:06am
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The UK health spending per head is 18th in the world, 22nd in the world in terms of doctrs per head and 22nd in nurses per head, Hardly great figures for the 5th biggest economy in the world. Though we have slid down to 22nd in gdp per head. The problem is the same the world over. The biggest corporations, the richest billionaires are paying less and less as a proportion in tax. As we see from this grim western mail report, lockdown has accelerated this at a frightening speed. Income inequality has been poor for 50 years, in UK, we're 69th in the world. Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world and has an estimated fortune of over $200.6billion, seeing his wealth surge during the Covid-19 pandemic. His company, Amazon, had no problems increasing sales during lockdown either, with a 51% rise in profits and a record breaking global quarterly profit of $109billion. Amazon paid just £492m in 2020 UK direct taxes, while estimates put the company’s tax-to-turnover ratio at just 0.37%. For context, the higher rate of income tax for an individual in England is 40%. Why is this? All sales made to UK customers go through a Luxembourg-based company, Amazon EU Sarl. This bypasses HMRC and takes advantage of the nation's generous tax breaks. The European Commission concluded in 2017, that Luxembourg granted undue tax benefits and illegal state aid to Amazon and was ordered to recover a quarter of a billion euros in unpaid tax. However, Amazon later won a case that meant this wasn't paid. A company spokesperson said: "Amazon pays all the taxes required in every country where we operate. Despite a record sales income of €44bn in Europe, Amazon paid https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/may/04/amazon-sales-income-europe-corporation-tax-luxembourg" rel="nofollow - zero corporation tax during 2020. Margaret Hodge, a Labour MP who campaigns against tax avoidance, said: "It seems that Amazon’s relentless campaign of appalling tax avoidance continues." ------------- ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER) |
Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 5:09am
Yet HMRC wanted to come to my house to take goods to the value of £3000 even though i knew they owed me over £5000
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Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 11:21am
Yes, exactly. And as to RR1972's point it being in just a bad state in Wales, Scotland and NI despite different parties in power, it really is mostly down to funding and those Governments/assemblies/whateverthey'recalled simply do not control how much they are given. It is still a National Health Service, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if the NHS has been mismanaged (in fact, I know this is certain) but I disagree Labour are just as bad as reducing public services and selling off as much as possible to the private sector (often also their financial backers) is a de facto aim of current Conservatives, whereas it is not for Labour. My other comment was about public tolerance of something that would be unacceptable in other nations. Same goes for Wales, people should rightly protest more about it. This would push it to the forefront of both major political parties to at least state what they will do about it, then they can be elected on this basis and held to account when they don't deliver. Unfortunately, the UK appears to have moved on from this political model, where a prime minister can literally lie about building 40 new hospitals repeatedly, including in the HoC, and few voters even seem to notice, let alone care. The whole "they're all as bad as each other", whilst completely understandable, then lends itself towards further apathy and lack of accountability. The UK spends too much time looking to the past, left and right, and is overall very conservative with a small "c". Serious political reform is needed, I mean we have an unelected second chamber which contains hereditary peers, a former cricketer elected simply based on the fact he expressed an opinion the Prime Minister agreed with, and party donors who buy their way into it. This is medieval stuff and has no place in a modern democracy.
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 12:06pm
| The country would be in a poo pit whatever political party was in power. |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 12:10pm
| The nhs was creaking pre covid now it’s proper wrecked, more money more staff is needed but when hasn’t that been the case? We should abolish the hol waste of time and money much like the senedd tbh |
Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 12:35pm
------------- I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1 |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 2:58pm
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Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 4:30pm
 ------------- I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1 |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 4:46pm
[/QUOTE you may find the idea of being governed by drakeford the ex social worker tee totaller 1 man charisma vacum an appealing prospect i don’t. The senedd is full of such over promoted under qualified, over paid no marks who make wales look a nation of backward thinking , professinal victims . Feel free to tell me why you think they are doing such a great job ps No need to take the lord’s name in vain either.
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Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 5:01pm
------------- I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1 |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 5:22pm
| You can want all you like but drakeford with his backward thibking and lack of a business brain will see wales in far worse mess. So stop portraying him as sone champion of the working class, he is useless. Also Spare me the dafydd iwan stuff and look at finacial realities. Wales can’t afford to be independent unless you want to live in 3rd world coutry with 3rd world services. What currency would we use for a start? Who will replace all the civil service jobs we have? Indy wales folk big on talk short on detail |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 5:28pm
You've gone too far now RR1972 - hands off Dafydd - he's a national treasure ( unlike Drakeford ).
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 5:59pm
| Ha fair enough sorry daf |
Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 6:23pm
------------- I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1 |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 6:33pm
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It hasn’t been rubbished has it? There are logical questins no one fron indy waled can answer. Currency? Jobs? How can a country with the least percebt of high earners but the highest percntage of the population on benefits not only stand alone but thrive alone. Fret ye mot i am to free to prefer what ever form of govt i chooise it’s called democracy anyhow enjoy your wknd all i have a lovely bottle of st julien calling my name
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 19 August 2022 at 8:16pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 21 August 2022 at 8:42pm
Amazon uses the tax system the way the tax system is designed to be used. To incentivise investment and to benefit smaller countries like Ireland, Malta, Cyprus and Luxembourg with lower tax demands. This is why Ireland is almost 2x richer than the U.K. and continues to grow even in downtimes The republic is enjoying a €8bn corporate tax windfall after bumper pandemic-enhanced revenues from tech and pharmaceutical companies. The tax take from companies attracted by Ireland’s 12.5 per cent corporate rate has soared since 2015 and leapt a further 30 per cent last year compared with 2020. Ireland’s economy expanded by 6.3 per cent over the second quarter, against an EU average of just 0.6 per cent. So great was the impact from multinationals that Ireland’s numbers distorted EU figures, despite the nation of 5.1mn making up less than 3 per cent of the region’s economy. Saying “we need to tax multinational corporations more” is literally saying “we want to continue being a poorer country relative to our neighbours” ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 21 August 2022 at 8:54pm
I agree with devolution and think wales could be independent but not a political cause I think is important. The question is since Devolution which areas of governance have the Senedd (or Holyrood) excelled in with the devolved powers they already have? I only mention Scotland because I lived in Glasgow but the devolved government does nothing good, it’s ruined Scotlands world class education industry and the health record is even worse. In wales i believe Education is actually going in a slightly better direction but wouldn’t know the figures, and I don’t think Health is any better than in England. Are there any areas you know where the devolved Governements HAVE materially improved things vs Westminster? I don’t know why I’d campaign for more devolution or independence without any clear evidence it would improve anything? ------------- https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 22 August 2022 at 8:58am
Sorry but I can’t agree on your point about education in Wales. In Pembs, all of the English comprehensives were in the lowest brackets of ESTYN inspections at the same time. My sons comprehensive is so short staffed he had supply teachers from September until February for his GCSE science.
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Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 22 August 2022 at 9:23am
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Sturgeon is obsessed with independence at any cost, the cost being the welfare, education and health of the Scottish people. ------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |