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Scarlets injured players and our best team

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Topic: Scarlets injured players and our best team
Posted By: aber-fan
Subject: Scarlets injured players and our best team
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 1:48pm
Two topics for the price of one, here.

I am out of the loop WRT injured players, or players just coming back from injury... does anyone know how these guys stand ATM? And please add any I'll no doubt forget!

15 Halfpenny - how goes he?
14 Liam - concussion, or good to go?
12 Jonny Williams? and Scott - fit on good authority, but short of match time?
11 McNicholl? Tomi Lewis?
10 Rhys Patchell

1 Rob Evans?
3 Samson Lee? Added to Wales squad, I think, but not used... if so,why? Not ready?
7 Cubby? Josh Macleod?


Is there any chance at all that all of these will be available for selection by September?

So - part 2 - what would be your 15/23 if everyone is fit?

I'd probably go with

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 (new signing?) or Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott

Scarlets seem to have a lot of options in some positions - second row is the one where an additional beefy signing could make a difference, as many have said. Problem is, though, injuries - very many of that 15/23 have had (or maybe are still suffering from) injuries in the recent past, and who knows if we'll have better luck next season?

Let's hope so!



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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)



Replies:
Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Two topics for the price of one, here.

I am out of the loop WRT injured players, or players just coming back from injury... does anyone know how these guys stand ATM? And please add any I'll no doubt forget!

15 Halfpenny - how goes he?
14 Liam - concussion, or good to go?
12 Jonny Williams? and Scott - fit on good authority, but short of match time?
11 McNicholl? Tomi Lewis?
10 Rhys Patchell

1 Rob Evans?
3 Samson Lee? Added to Wales squad, I think, but not used... if so,why? Not ready?
7 Cubby? Josh Macleod?


Is there any chance at all that all of these will be available for selection by September?

So - part 2 - what would be your 15/23 if everyone is fit?

I'd probably go with

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 (new signing?) or Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott

Scarlets seem to have a lot of options in some positions - second row is the one where an additional beefy signing could make a difference, as many have said. Problem is, though, injuries - very many of that 15/23 have had (or maybe are still suffering from) injuries in the recent past, and who knows if we'll have better luck next season?

Let's hope so!

Don’t forget WillGriff John

-------------
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Two topics for the price of one, here.

I am out of the loop WRT injured players, or players just coming back from injury... does anyone know how these guys stand ATM? And please add any I'll no doubt forget!

15 Halfpenny - how goes he?
14 Liam - concussion, or good to go?
12 Jonny Williams? and Scott - fit on good authority, but short of match time?
11 McNicholl? Tomi Lewis?
10 Rhys Patchell

1 Rob Evans?
3 Samson Lee? Added to Wales squad, I think, but not used... if so,why? Not ready?
7 Cubby? Josh Macleod?


Is there any chance at all that all of these will be available for selection by September?

So - part 2 - what would be your 15/23 if everyone is fit?

I'd probably go with

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 (new signing?) or Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott

Scarlets seem to have a lot of options in some positions - second row is the one where an additional beefy signing could make a difference, as many have said. Problem is, though, injuries - very many of that 15/23 have had (or maybe are still suffering from) injuries in the recent past, and who knows if we'll have better luck next season?

Let's hope so!

Don’t forget WillGriff John

Haha! My memory is crap - I knew I'd forget someone! I guess he'd start, with Samson - short of recent match time - on the bench in place of Javan... if he's fit.


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: hartson11
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 2:05pm
Tomas Lezana must come in to the mix too


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Two topics for the price of one, here.

I am out of the loop WRT injured players, or players just coming back from injury... does anyone know how these guys stand ATM? And please add any I'll no doubt forget!

15 Halfpenny - how goes he?
14 Liam - concussion, or good to go?
12 Jonny Williams? and Scott - fit on good authority, but short of match time?
11 McNicholl? Tomi Lewis?
10 Rhys Patchell

1 Rob Evans?
3 Samson Lee? Added to Wales squad, I think, but not used... if so,why? Not ready?
7 Cubby? Josh Macleod?


Is there any chance at all that all of these will be available for selection by September?

So - part 2 - what would be your 15/23 if everyone is fit?

I'd probably go with

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 (new signing?) or Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott

Scarlets seem to have a lot of options in some positions - second row is the one where an additional beefy signing could make a difference, as many have said. Problem is, though, injuries - very many of that 15/23 have had (or maybe are still suffering from) injuries in the recent past, and who knows if we'll have better luck next season?

Let's hope so!

Don’t forget WillGriff John

Haha! My memory is crap - I knew I'd forget someone! I guess he'd start, with Samson - short of recent match time - on the bench in place of Javan... if he's fit.


And you've both forgotten our Argentinian Lezzana (?)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 2:12pm
Can't see us seeing Leigh until next year so Liam at 15 provided he returns Ok which is certainly not straightforward with the amount of high balls he will see against the Boks. Tomas Lazana will be first choice 7 for me until Josh/Cubby return to full fitness alongside Shingler/Kalamafoni with Blade, Davis & Iestyn Rees completing a decent stable of back rows. On the fitness front I see no reason that Josh will not see the start of the season but Cubby with HIA issues will be a worry.

Our 2nd rows are Price, Louisi, Morgan Jones, Rawlins, Jac Price & Drake all should be good to go at start of season. First choice front row probably is Wyn, Ken & WGJ with Rob/Steff Thomas, Ryan & Samson forming a decent bench. My worry is whether Rob can get back to near his best.

We are strong at 9 with Cawdor, Hardy & Blacker. Patchell should make a welcome return at 10 after a horror run of injuries to complement Dan, AOB & Sam. I would love to see Jonny Williams being given a run at 13 outside Scott as I think he has the pace and passing game to play 13. Young guns like Joe Roberts and James will be given their chances hopefully. 

Back 3 again Tomi Lewis should be fit to start the season with Leigh missing a large chunk. 


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by hartson11 hartson11 wrote:

Tomas Lezana must come in to the mix too
Tomas will be very useful as he’s a high quality player who can play across the back-row, although his preferred position is 8.

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 2:30pm
Don’t we have another two players to be announced as well 

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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 3:49pm
15 1/2penny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Jonny
11 Mcnicholl
10 Patchel
9 Cawdor
1 wyn
2 ken
3 samson
4 jones
5 lousi
6 lezana (argentinian)
7 mcleod
8 sioni

16 elias
17 rob
18 WGJ
19 jac price
20 shingler
21 hardy
22 costellow
23 rogers

Granted that seversl are injured. This is if all players are fit

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 4:13pm
halfpenny will i think only make a couple of months best of the coming season after that injury. its a horrible one to get other. dont see foxey in the 13 channel either, he has lost too much pace. the centres could actually swap or scott comes into it.
clear need for a bulky powerful 2nd row. just wonder if we could pick up one of lezanas mates from argentina?



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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 4:22pm
I doubt we will see Halfpenny until well in to 2022, Macleod hopefully this side of Christmas. Both are first choice/starters so not a great season kick off. It is what it is.

In that respect much depends on Sanjay and Cubby's availability for decent full back and back row cover for the first batch of games up to end October.

Perm any one of a number of decent options at 1,2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14..good options there.

Where we look wafer thin is at lock. Lousi and Morgan Jones are good, but there's a notable gap between those guys and Drake, Helps, Price (T) and Price (J). Having said that certainly Drake and Jac Price have not really had enough game time for me to make a solid view, both have potential.

We could well see Shingler or Kalamafoni pressed in to service in the 2nd row at times. Comfortable with that too, if not ideal of course.

Where there's excitement is at half back ( Blacker and Costellow to really give the others a run for their money), centre with Joe Roberts and Eddie James, and a few of the academy boys (front row in particular).

Jury is out a bit for me on Tuipolotu. No doubting he is a hell of an unit, and does show some of the appropriate skill set needed, but he didn't have the best U20's series this time round ( in what was a mediocre team, I accept).



Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 4:47pm
I forgot about our depth at 9 with Blacker having done so well.

Given Cawdor is over 60 caps now would he be looking to move to England or France at all? Or has he got a few more years on his contract?


-------------
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Two topics for the price of one, here.

I am out of the loop WRT injured players, or players just coming back from injury... does anyone know how these guys stand ATM? And please add any I'll no doubt forget!

15 Halfpenny - how goes he?
14 Liam - concussion, or good to go?
12 Jonny Williams? and Scott - fit on good authority, but short of match time?
11 McNicholl? Tomi Lewis?
10 Rhys Patchell

1 Rob Evans?
3 Samson Lee? Added to Wales squad, I think, but not used... if so,why? Not ready?
7 Cubby? Josh Macleod?


Is there any chance at all that all of these will be available for selection by September?

So - part 2 - what would be your 15/23 if everyone is fit?

I'd probably go with

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 (new signing?) or Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott

Scarlets seem to have a lot of options in some positions - second row is the one where an additional beefy signing could make a difference, as many have said. Problem is, though, injuries - very many of that 15/23 have had (or maybe are still suffering from) injuries in the recent past, and who knows if we'll have better luck next season?

Let's hope so!

Don’t forget WillGriff John

Haha! My memory is crap - I knew I'd forget someone! I guess he'd start, with Samson - short of recent match time - on the bench in place of Javan... if he's fit.


And you've both forgotten our Argentinian Lezzana (?)

Forgot his name - had him as 'new signing ?' not his existence! maybe it wasn't clear. New signings not on squad list, so with my memory for names... I did actually forget WillGriff, though!


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 19 July 2021 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I doubt we will see Halfpenny until well in to 2022, Macleod hopefully this side of Christmas. Both are first choice/starters so not a great season kick off. It is what it is.

In that respect much depends on Sanjay and Cubby's availability for decent full back and back row cover for the first batch of games up to end October.

Perm any one of a number of decent options at 1,2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14..good options there.

Where we look wafer thin is at lock. Lousi and Morgan Jones are good, but there's a notable gap between those guys and Drake, Helps, Price (T) and Price (J). Having said that certainly Drake and Jac Price have not really had enough game time for me to make a solid view, both have potential.

We could well see Shingler or Kalamafoni pressed in to service in the 2nd row at times. Comfortable with that too, if not ideal of course.

Where there's excitement is at half back ( Blacker and Costellow to really give the others a run for their money), centre with Joe Roberts and Eddie James, and a few of the academy boys (front row in particular).

Jury is out a bit for me on Tuipolotu. No doubting he is a hell of an unit, and does show some of the appropriate skill set needed, but he didn't have the best U20's series this time round ( in what was a mediocre team, I accept).

Tuipolotu is a long way from what we need as yet. He's a lump, but so was Keddie at that age and he looked more effective at age grade than Carwyn. Point being he's hardly  phenomenon now!

I'd suggest if Cubby can't make pre-season then he's in serious trouble. I think we could well see Lezana start the season at 7 if we have neither Cubby or Josh to call on. Although young Iestyn Rees has potential, and Dan Davies is a perfectly serviceable URC 7.


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We're still still here!


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 7:20am
Yes. I'm not sure the South Sea island heritage is helpful to young Carwyn.
If his name was Carwyn Jones I think expectations might be level set differently.
Anyway, he's well young enough to come through.

It will interesting to see how the Wales AI squad plays out. Got a feeling that Ken and Foxy places will come under the spotlight. Rob Evs and Samson have slipped down the pecking order, as have Elias, Patchell and Steff Evs.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 9:28am
Pivac will never pick stef for wales again imo.  After the last few games by evans and sheedy patchell is likely to get called up as soon as he is fit, elias seems set as  3rd choice.  I don’t see jonny mac  shingler or cubby in mix for wales anymore, lee or wgj will get s spot,  rob evans seems on the outs with pivac as well and i have my doubts over foxy come  6 nations time, when is that wales 38 selected?


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 9:48am
Steff just needs to get back to try scoring form, LRZ and Adams are world class with pace and power. Steff has a decent step on him and truth be told i’m not even sure we could get him any decent ball last year. I remember he linked up well with Lousi for a score. 
I dont think Pivac has a nailed on third choice winger and with Cuthbert back who knows. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 9:52am
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Steff just needs to get back to try scoring form, LRZ and Adams are world class with pace and power. Steff has a decent step on him and truth be told i’m not even sure we could get him any decent ball last year. I remember he linked up well with Lousi for a score. 
I dont think Pivac has a nailed on third choice winger and with Cuthbert back who knows. 

I am afraid Steff's top end pace will cost him not only his Welsh place but also his first choice spot for the Scarlets. The next cab off the back 3 rank for Wales is Jonah Holmes who has pace & power. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 10:05am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Steff just needs to get back to try scoring form, LRZ and Adams are world class with pace and power. Steff has a decent step on him and truth be told i’m not even sure we could get him any decent ball last year. I remember he linked up well with Lousi for a score. 
I dont think Pivac has a nailed on third choice winger and with Cuthbert back who knows. 

I am afraid Steff's top end pace will cost him not only his Welsh place but also his first choice spot for the Scarlets. The next cab off the back 3 rank for Wales is Jonah Holmes who has pace & power. 

I've been really impressed with him since his move to the Dragons. I wasn't too fussed when it was announced he was moving there from the Tigers but fair play to the lad.


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 10:08am
We’ll see the direction Peel goes in. We haven’t seen the best of Mcnicholl for a while. 
One of them to deputise at fullback for Halfpenny. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 10:19am
I would hope that for the late September & October games we see plenty of Liam at 15 with McNichol and Rogers on wings. During International windows I would like to see Tomi Lewis get a chance at 15. I think we will only be losing Liam to team Wales from our back 3. 

At centre with Foxy probably starting a bit late I would love to see Scott and Jonny Williams getting a run of games outside Hardy & Patchell with Blacker & Costellow on the bench. All the above benefitting from a fresh pair of eyes who totally understands the Scarlets way. I wonder if Scott's duties may include some input on defence as we haven't heard any news on that front. Perhaps Wil and Steff ( Scarletnut) could add something. 


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 10:58am
I have asked but I thought we were due two new players a second row and a centre come wing is this not the case anymore. Or is Price the second row and Scott the centre. 

-------------
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 11:42am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam
13 Foxy
12 Scott or Jonny
11 Tom Rogers
10 Patchell
9 Cawdor

8 Kalamafoni
7 Lezana / Macleod
6 Shingler
5 Lousi
4 Jones
3 Samson / WillGriff John
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

bench:

16 Elias
17 Rob Evans
18 Javan
19 Rawlins
20 Blade
21 Blacker/Hardy
22 Costelow
23 Jonny or Scott


Scarlets team vs Sale this year 
~ Subs

15 Halfpenny
14 Liam Williams
13 S Hughes
12 J Williams ~ Foxy
11 McNicholl
10 D Jones ~ Costelow
9 G Davies ~ Blacker

1 Wyn Jones ~ Thomas
2 Ken Owens ~ Elias
3 Sholtz ~ Javan
4 Ball
5 Lousi 
6 Shingler ~ Blade
7 Jac Morgan
8 Kalamafoni ~ Rawlins

What’s a bit depressing is how strong that team is on paper, with maybe 15 of our current full strength 23. And we all know what happened that day…

What’s less depressing is we know that coaching makes a massive difference in rugby. 

I was just watching Ep.1 of Chasing the Sun, the doc about South Africa winning the 2019 RWC, and before Rassie Erasmus was brought in the same SA players had lost 57-0 to NZ, 38-3 to Ireland and something like 26-13 to Wales. Literally 18 months later they won the World Cup realistically because their coaches changed. 

Obviously Peel isn’t the same calibre of coach as Rassie Erasmus and Jaques Neinaber but change was necessary and we’re getting that.


-------------
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Steff just needs to get back to try scoring form, LRZ and Adams are world class with pace and power. Steff has a decent step on him and truth be told i’m not even sure we could get him any decent ball last year. I remember he linked up well with Lousi for a score. 
I dont think Pivac has a nailed on third choice winger and with Cuthbert back who knows. 
i just think pivac doesn’t like him and wont pick him tbh



Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 3:07pm
i agree with RR1972 i sadly think steff will not get another cap with pivac there. something not right with the relationship between them which is a crying shame for steff.



-------------
Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 5:43pm
Puvac seems to hold a grudge. Not only with steff.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: thommo
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Puvac seems to hold a grudge. Not only with steff.
On what do you base that? On recent performance Steff is nowhere near the national team.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 6:49pm
I remember there being a few rumours about Steff when Pivac dropped him a while back, the official Pivac response was

"Steff has two sides to his game," said the Scarlets head coach.

"We know he has very good footwork and he has done a lot for us in attack in the past.

"At the moment it is about being tougher with the ball in the contact area.

"He has the highest turnover rate and teams are targeting him with the high ball. That's plain for everyone to see.

"He is working on those areas of his game and we would like to think he will be joining our ranks again after some more hard work behind the scenes, which is ongoing."



-------------
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 20 July 2021 at 6:51pm
I totally agree. But when pivac was at the scarlets many pkayers including steff fell foul to his ways. At that time steff wad the inform winger.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 21 July 2021 at 4:02am
Originally posted by thommo thommo wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Puvac seems to hold a grudge. Not only with steff.
On what do you base that? On recent performance Steff is nowhere near the national team.

Exactly. Steff just needs to play well for the Scarlets. His defense is suspect, as is our other two young tyros of the same position - Tom Rogers and Ryan Conbeer. I hope we can start fixing that.


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Scarlets before Wales


Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 21 July 2021 at 9:15am

   Tom Rogers his an excellent defender!  Where as Ryan Conbeer and Tomi Lewis have a lot of work to improve there defence and aerial game. 


Posted By: thommo
Date Posted: 21 July 2021 at 9:19am
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:


   Tom Rogers his an excellent defender!  Where as Ryan Conbeer and Tomi Lewis have a lot of work to improve there defence and aerial game. 
I think the point being made is that against big physical wings they would all struggle. That is one big chink in our armoury both in attack and defence, gas and power combined.


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 21 July 2021 at 9:34am
we do lack a big physical winger in our squad as well to vary things up but cant see us going after one as our priority has to be 2nd row and i cant see the finances stretching to both

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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 21 July 2021 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

we do lack a big physical winger in our squad as well to vary things up but cant see us going after one as our priority has to be 2nd row and i cant see the finances stretching to both
I can't see them stretching to a big lock- but I'm ready to be wrong!


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We're still still here!



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