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Lions 2021

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

I think Gatland will get it again in 2025. He’ll probably be England coach by then 

Obvs depends on how the 6Ns and RWC go but I’d put all 4 home nations head coaches ahead of Gatland now.

Eddie Jones finishes at England in 2023 and he’s never done a Lions. An Aussie coaching the Lions vs Australia would be box office. 

Likewise Wales like taking the coin from the Lions by lending out their head coach so Pivac stands a chance.

Then Andy Farrell and Toonie both have experience with the Lions now and a good 2023RWC could see either of them pinpointed as head coach.

If I were a betting man I would put money on EJ coaching either Australia or the Lions for that series. 
With respect Farrell, Pivac and Townsend haven’t come close yet to achieving what Gatland has in his career. I agree the Lions need to move on from Gatland but are any of the current coaches of the home nations up to it? They are unlikely to go near Eddie Jones for off the field matters so I’d look at someone like Joe Schmidt or Pat Lam

I agree - and if Lam gets a gig at test level by then, he'd be a good choice IMO. I don't see the Lions picking someone who is 'just' a club coach, though - no matter how good they are. (Such a person could easily be part of the coaching team.)

Not since they chose Carwyn James, and he didn't do a bad job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

How many times have we seen it over the years. The infamous Pivac out cries on here turned into mr perfect. Then we started losing and it was Pivac out again. The life of a rugby coach. South Africa’s tactics were obvious. Slow the game down with ‘injuries’ I can more or less guarantee if we’d won the series he wouldn’t get half as much criticism. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 2:14pm
Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

La Rochelle were guilty of slowing the game down when we played at the Parc a few years ago. Whenever the Scarlets got some momentum going they took an injury. The ref can hardly tell a player that he's not injured !!!

Two seasons ago, Toulon employed a more sinister tactic. Whenever LH lined up a shot at goal, be it a penalty or a conversion, one of their players went down injured, giving one of their 'coaches' an opportunity to walk around to the try line. The injured player was always on the side from where LH was going to take his kick. When LH had paced back and was steadying himself for the kick. Their 'coach' made his way along the touchline into LH's eyeline to try and distract him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Agree, I find their faffing around before a scrum contemptible.

You’re allowed 30 seconds before a scrum to “set” otherwise it’s a free-kick against you. This needs shortening and/or enforcing, with help from the TMO who should be marking when the ref called scrum and when the teams are ready. 

In fact I would have this for lots of parts of the game, box kicks “use it” call of 5 seconds should be enforced by the TMO, likewise when a team goes for the penalty kick or conversion the TMO should be timing to the second so that teams get penalised for any attempt to waste time. 

Likewise the coaches on-the pitch thing needs to be cut out. 


Edited by dyniol53 - 09 August 2021 at 3:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Agree, I find their faffing around before a scrum contemptible.

You’re allowed 30 seconds before a scrum to “set” otherwise it’s a free-kick against you. This needs shortening and/or enforcing, with help from the TMO who should be marking when the ref called scrum and when the teams are ready. 

Likewise the coaches on-the pitch thing needs to be cut out. 

Im not just bitter about the result I want the game to be faster, more aerobic and therefore more skilful and entertaining. 

Given the current climate of protecting players, I don't think you can shorten it, but I agree it needs to be enforced more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 3:14pm
I agree, but I think it’s genuinely obscene that there was 26m22seconds of ball in play time on Saturday. 26minutes of rugby!!

It would be good to speed it up so that players have to jog to scrums and lineouts if they want to catch their breath.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I agree, but I think it’s genuinely obscene that there was 26m22seconds of ball in play time on Saturday. 26minutes of rugby!!

It would be good to speed it up so that players have to jog to scrums and lineouts if they want to catch their breath.

When we start playing next month (lower leagues) the ball will be in play a lot more given the law changes & the fact there will only be scrums for knock ons. Forward passes or not straight at lineout will be a tap & pass. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I agree, but I think it’s genuinely obscene that there was 26m22seconds of ball in play time on Saturday. 26minutes of rugby!!

It would be good to speed it up so that players have to jog to scrums and lineouts if they want to catch their breath.

When we start playing next month (lower leagues) the ball will be in play a lot more given the law changes & the fact there will only be scrums for knock ons. Forward passes or not straight at lineout will be a tap & pass. 
Rugby league then.
Easy fix is offside line moved back 3 yards and scrum halves in play as soon as they touch ball again. Would cut out lots of dreadful box kicking and give attacking side more time with extra yards. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 


Edited by SA14 - 10 August 2021 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 

He's  not a poor coach, he is a really good coach or at least he has been a really good coach. But the final quarter of that game was so similar to the final quarter of our WC semi. Some of the players were the same but actually not many in the closing stages but there was a reluctance to go out and win the game, a fear of being responsible for losing that resulted in losing. That's a coaching issue because it was a team mindset. And that is a flaw in Gatland's current and recent coaching cv. Coupled with a disastrous domestic season in NZ last year and  his record is a bit tarnished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:19pm
GatlAnd hAs been a great coach. His cv shows that beyond doubt grand slams, heinkem cups,prenierships , winning lion series, itm cup etc. Not always easy to watch but his track record is excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

GatlAnd hAs been a great coach. His cv shows that beyond doubt grand slams, heinkem cups,prenierships , winning lion series, itm cup etc. Not always easy to watch but his track record is excellent

Cannot fault Gatland's cv and as a Welshman I will always like him for the way he transformed our national team. However this series has done nothing positive for that CV or indeed Townsend's. The coach who came out of this with his reputation enhanced for me was Robin McBryde. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:37pm
He is a great coach and exactly as you say GPR what he did for cymru was always make us competitive. We could go into any game knowing it could go to the wire. That wasnt the case before him at all. 

The big unproven part of his CV is can a team he coaches beat Southern Hemisphere sides regularly? Or can he do it coaching in NZ?

Over the 3 Lions tours he’s finished 2-1, 1-1, 1-2 meaning he’s evens vs SH with what the best of the British isles have to offer. 

His welsh record vs the big 3 SH was very very poor, but perhaps the narrowness of many of the defeats is an indication of how good he is. 

He may well have to coach England if he wants to amend his reputation vs the big 3 SH but I think he’s done with NH rugby now and will coach in NZ to see if they offer him a job to take over the ABs but not sure he’s desperate for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

He is a great coach and exactly as you say GPR what he did for cymru was always make us competitive. We could go into any game knowing it could go to the wire. That wasnt the case before him at all. 

The big unproven part of his CV is can a team he coaches beat Southern Hemisphere sides regularly? Or can he do it coaching in NZ?

Over the 3 Lions tours he’s finished 2-1, 1-1, 1-2 meaning he’s evens vs SH with what the best of the British isles have to offer. 

His welsh record vs the big 3 SH was very very poor, but perhaps the narrowness of many of the defeats is an indication of how good he is. 

He may well have to coach England if he wants to amend his reputation vs the big 3 SH but I think he’s done with NH rugby now and will coach in NZ to see if they offer him a job to take over the ABs but not sure he’s desperate for it.

Thats a very fair summation. I am not too sure about him being finished with Northern Hemisphere. I think the top International coaching job in World Rugby is the England gig - certainly from a remuneration point of view. If fast Eddie doesn't improve England's results markedly in the next 6 nations I could see Gats being offered the job as Scarletnut alluded to. With the forward power available and Marcus Smith to pull the strings at 10 he would fancy World Cup success in 2023.

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
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