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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

I just read this from George Monbiot: 

"Sunak’s Britain is already broken. We need more than a general election to fix it."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/26/rishi-sunak-britain-general-election-protest



no time for this george loon after his respect party antics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We're witnessing an irreversible decline, not just of the UK but of the current economic paradigm. https://bylinetimes.com/2022/10/19/britains-stark-choice-ahead-transformation-or-collapse/

Interestingly, listening to the voxpop's on the news tonight, what comes through loud and clear to me is people's weary heartfelt wish to have good governance. I've argued with people here that we should take matters into our own hands in Wales and establish a Welsh Nation State. I know that many of you disagree with me. I'd say to everyone, "The old is dying but the new cannot be born yet. In this interregnum, many morbid symptoms appear." But there is a proposal that I believe can work. That's Confederalism. https://www.iwa.wales/agenda/2022/03/a-strategic-compromise/ This proposal by Glyndwr Cennydd Jones I think is a great starting point to negotiate a new Union, a constitutional renewal and electoral reform that presents an opportunity to build a new basis for the governance of Britain. 

In the words of one of my favourite songs "I can't imagine why you wouldn't welcome any change my friend." Surely, we cannot go on as we are?
we’d be a 3rd world nation if we jump to indy status in the midst of a world wide economic  crisis

That's not exactly what GCJ is proposing. Have you read it? Besides which, most new States form in the midst of crises. IMHO we're well on our way to becoming a failed state as things stand.


Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 26 October 2022 at 8:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:26pm
K
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

I understand your anger SP. I think everyone's had enough of the poopshow. What we've witnessed over the last 40 years or so is the unfolding of a Tory civil war. A particular faction has won out. Boris's ambition was used by them. He was never their endpoint. He was useful insofar as he booted out a whole number of Conservative moderates. Truss's empty vessel politics was viewed as an opportunity by them. She was willing to be whatever she needed to be to get power. Somehow, they failed to account for her abject incompetence and now they face electoral defeat for their error. Deservedly so. They've cost ordinary people across the UK a fortune. On top of that, their Brexit hellvision has cost the UK an astonishing amount in lost growth. We've fallen behind all the big players. And now they've got Sunak in to etch away at the State through a new round of austerity.

This is all pure ideology from a Tory faction. We have the misfortune of the tip of the tail wagging the tail, wagging the dog. And that is why we're in the mess we're in. There are three things the UK needs to put these Tory headbangers in their box where they belong and provide the basis of good governance ... IMHO.

1. Electoral reform. My preference is STV. It may be a case of merging constituencies and having 2 or 3 MP's per constituency elected in order of preference. That way we get a mix of MP's that reflects the actual % vote per party and retain the local constituency link. Citizens will also be able to choose from a mix of MP's when they need help which might suit people better. FPTP delivers an asymmetric Parliament which allows the largest minority to govern absolutely.

2. A new Union. The current UK is totally asymmetric and is predicated on the Supremacy of the HoC. This means that by weight of numbers, England chooses the Government nearly every time. Welsh and Scottish electoral mandates count for little in the HoC as our sovereignty as a people is bound in our MP's and handed to the executive at Westminster which 70% of the time is not the one we voted for in Wales. We've seen time and time again how that executive is able to impose its will regardless of mandate on Wales. Tryweryn, deindustrialisation, the Poll Tax, repealing Welsh Industrial Relations laws, Austerity, the "Levelling Up" fund and so on. We now need to reconstruct the Union to be a Confederal Union of British Nation States, each with its own Parliaments. Abolish the HoL and establish a Council of the Isles to make law on common areas where we pool our sovereignty. No more can we allow a Tory Party that is even a minority vote in England to govern Wales with no mandate from ourselves.

3. Written constitutions. Boris has shown that the unwritten "Good Chaps" convention based constitution of the UK is wildly open to abuse. That we are now on our third PM this year and little prospect of a GE for some months to come, is democratically absurd. We need to establish the principles of good governance and codify them.


That's an excellent post on so many levels "totally biased".
Not sure about constitutional reform will come during an economic crisis, but it has to come.
So many people in Uk, left without a voice, dure to the current system, we call democracy.

Moving on however to our current situation.
It's good to see Sunak has had the sense drop the last vestiges of Truss 's policies. The announcement on Fracking was the most welcome. England now comes back into line, with Wales, Scotland &NI.
We have to see what happens with the re-appointment of Gove to levelling up, and how effective that will be. I am not optimistic, and David Davies, new Welsh sec, is getting his apologies in already!!
The biggest shock is the reappointment of Bravenman as home sec!
Grant Shapps has hardly had time to get his feet under the table LOL !

It is not funny however to have a vile, dangerous woman like Suella Braverman, back in front line politics, and disgraceful, after being sacked.
We ALL make mistakes, but we are talking here of the highest offices of state in the country, not someone like myself, who cleaned pubs and supermarkets 

One comment on SF forum state that Braverman made Pritti Patel, look "kind".
I would go further than that, Braverman, makes Thatcher look like Corbyn!!
She is opinionated, racist and is quite happy to send refugees to Rwanda, a place with appalling human rights record. Truly sickening.
An official reporting to the Commons Select Committee, stated that conditions, in UK refugee "holding camps", are appalling! We have a duty, as a civilised country, to treat every individual with dignity.
Wonder what Braverman has to say about this?

Finally, Rishi Sunak, really has got his work cut out! 
The economic situation is dire, and the cracks in his own party, just have sticking plaster on them,
 for now. 
When things start going wrong, and they will, you will see those cracks opening!
I want to see the back of the Tories, but my main worry ATM, is the welfare of young families, the elderly and vulnerable during the year ahead.
If we have another grossly unfair (in its proportion) dose of Austerity, it could in some cases, prove tragic.
One can only hope and pray!
I stood yer on tanner bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:47pm
Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

Edited by RR1972 - 26 October 2022 at 11:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

K
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

I understand your anger SP. I think everyone's had enough of the poopshow. What we've witnessed over the last 40 years or so is the unfolding of a Tory civil war. A particular faction has won out. Boris's ambition was used by them. He was never their endpoint. He was useful insofar as he booted out a whole number of Conservative moderates. Truss's empty vessel politics was viewed as an opportunity by them. She was willing to be whatever she needed to be to get power. Somehow, they failed to account for her abject incompetence and now they face electoral defeat for their error. Deservedly so. They've cost ordinary people across the UK a fortune. On top of that, their Brexit hellvision has cost the UK an astonishing amount in lost growth. We've fallen behind all the big players. And now they've got Sunak in to etch away at the State through a new round of austerity.

This is all pure ideology from a Tory faction. We have the misfortune of the tip of the tail wagging the tail, wagging the dog. And that is why we're in the mess we're in. There are three things the UK needs to put these Tory headbangers in their box where they belong and provide the basis of good governance ... IMHO.

1. Electoral reform. My preference is STV. It may be a case of merging constituencies and having 2 or 3 MP's per constituency elected in order of preference. That way we get a mix of MP's that reflects the actual % vote per party and retain the local constituency link. Citizens will also be able to choose from a mix of MP's when they need help which might suit people better. FPTP delivers an asymmetric Parliament which allows the largest minority to govern absolutely.

2. A new Union. The current UK is totally asymmetric and is predicated on the Supremacy of the HoC. This means that by weight of numbers, England chooses the Government nearly every time. Welsh and Scottish electoral mandates count for little in the HoC as our sovereignty as a people is bound in our MP's and handed to the executive at Westminster which 70% of the time is not the one we voted for in Wales. We've seen time and time again how that executive is able to impose its will regardless of mandate on Wales. Tryweryn, deindustrialisation, the Poll Tax, repealing Welsh Industrial Relations laws, Austerity, the "Levelling Up" fund and so on. We now need to reconstruct the Union to be a Confederal Union of British Nation States, each with its own Parliaments. Abolish the HoL and establish a Council of the Isles to make law on common areas where we pool our sovereignty. No more can we allow a Tory Party that is even a minority vote in England to govern Wales with no mandate from ourselves.

3. Written constitutions. Boris has shown that the unwritten "Good Chaps" convention based constitution of the UK is wildly open to abuse. That we are now on our third PM this year and little prospect of a GE for some months to come, is democratically absurd. We need to establish the principles of good governance and codify them.


That's an excellent post on so many levels "totally biased".
Not sure about constitutional reform will come during an economic crisis, but it has to come.
So many people in Uk, left without a voice, dure to the current system, we call democracy.

Moving on however to our current situation.
It's good to see Sunak has had the sense drop the last vestiges of Truss 's policies. The announcement on Fracking was the most welcome. England now comes back into line, with Wales, Scotland &NI.
We have to see what happens with the re-appointment of Gove to levelling up, and how effective that will be. I am not optimistic, and David Davies, new Welsh sec, is getting his apologies in already!!
The biggest shock is the reappointment of Bravenman as home sec!
Grant Shapps has hardly had time to get his feet under the table LOL !

It is not funny however to have a vile, dangerous woman like Suella Braverman, back in front line politics, and disgraceful, after being sacked.
We ALL make mistakes, but we are talking here of the highest offices of state in the country, not someone like myself, who cleaned pubs and supermarkets 

One comment on SF forum state that Braverman made Pritti Patel, look "kind".
I would go further than that, Braverman, makes Thatcher look like Corbyn!!
She is opinionated, racist and is quite happy to send refugees to Rwanda, a place with appalling human rights record. Truly sickening.
An official reporting to the Commons Select Committee, stated that conditions, in UK refugee "holding camps", are appalling! We have a duty, as a civilised country, to treat every individual with dignity.
Wonder what Braverman has to say about this?

Finally, Rishi Sunak, really has got his work cut out! 
The economic situation is dire, and the cracks in his own party, just have sticking plaster on them,
 for now. 
When things start going wrong, and they will, you will see those cracks opening!
I want to see the back of the Tories, but my main worry ATM, is the welfare of young families, the elderly and vulnerable during the year ahead.
If we have another grossly unfair (in its proportion) dose of Austerity, it could in some cases, prove tragic.
One can only hope and pray!

Yeah, Braverman is a piece of work. Her "mistake" as it's being portrayed turns out to be a persistent failure of judgement. Sunak obviously put her back in out of political expediency in order to try and govern his party. It's a big old target for the opposition to hit though isn't it.

On constitutional change and economic circumstances, I can recommend "The Break-up of Britain" by Tom Nairn. He considers the emergence of a large number of modern European States from former Kingdoms, Empires etc during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. He concludes that economic inequality is in fact a key driver in the breakdown of States. He compares the situation of Wales and Scotland over that time period and concludes that our nations were net beneficiaries of the UK State and its Empire. But then he considers how the economy shifted from the early-mid twentieth century on and concludes that growing economic inequality will act as an effective wedge in breaking up the UK. Well, that's the simplified version of the book anyway. I think there's a real truth to this thesis. Obviously, the situation is complex and a great deal is going on but I believe we are witnessing the decline of this version of the UK (2nd version in fact). Britain seems to have gone through significant constitutional change every roughly 150 years since the original Acts of Union between England and Wales. So this is nothing new really. Like I said before, I'd rather try a constructive reform than a chaotic collapse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:29pm
Interesting points here. I have never heard of Tom Nairn.
If the Tories were to win again, I think the drum is going to be banged really loud for change!

Regarding Braverman, being in the cabinet, was preferable, as you say, to being a loose cannon on the back benches!
This reminds me about something former Llanelli MP Denzil Davies told me about former Pontypridd MP Kim Howells, who had been appointed as a junior minister in the cabinet.
Kim was always a maverick and had a habit of speaking his mind, no matter who it embarrassed!
Denzil said.. "Well its always best to have someone inside the tent, pissing out, as opposed to outside the tent pissing in. Trouble is Kim's inside the tent and pissing"LOL

Wonder what Braverman will do
I stood yer on tanner bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.


Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 26 October 2022 at 11:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 7:43am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.

That's a brilliant post. I have no numbers but ask yourself just how many are dying because of lack of investment in public healthcare, or as a result of living in poverty. I would wager it is order of magnitudes greater than the numbers you mention RR1972.

And then ask yourself why is it papers such as the Mail and Express focus on immigration rather than other issues such as above? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 8:09am
Its always the way with right wing politicians. Stir up racial hatred - taking our jobs etc; benefit cheats taking the food off our tables; asylum seekers costing the country dear. People need to stop & think how many people on benefits would be covered by increasing the tax by 5% on the Sunak family. 

How can any PM relate to normal every day people & the very real problems facing them at the moment when they are worth £700m+ & have 4 luxury homes, one being a flat in Kensington which he keeps empty for visiting family members. Sunak & his type should never be allowed to fill top level roles in any government who really believe in levelling up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 8:10am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.
it’s the times And bbc  reporting it . That 2 billion is not a small ammount and brushing it under the carpet as it’s not an issue of comcern to you doesn’t alter that fact
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 8:17am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.

That's a brilliant post. I have no numbers but ask yourself just how many are dying because of lack of investment in public healthcare, or as a result of living in poverty. I would wager it is order of magnitudes greater than the numbers you mention RR1972.

And then ask yourself why is it papers such as the Mail and Express focus on immigration rather than other issues such as above? 
i’m all for increasing taxes on the mega rich we can do that was well as crack down in illegal migraton it’s not a binary choice.  It is a fact illegal immigration has an impact on housing nhs not to mention impacts on the services available for genuine refugees. The left leaning political types are mute on this topic and tend to use what aboutery or hurl racism allegations at anyone who broaches the subject.(not saying that about people here) I have no issue in helping genuine refugees but when 1 per cent of albanias total make pooulation arrive her illegally in the last 12 months there is clearly an issue to resolve

Edited by RR1972 - 27 October 2022 at 8:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 10:11am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.
it’s the times And bbc  reporting it . That 2 billion is not a small ammount and brushing it under the carpet as it’s not an issue of comcern to you doesn’t alter that fact

It isn't small RR and I didn't brush it under the carpet. I said I agree in part. Of course illegal immigration needs to be tackled - by dealing with the criminal gangs that operate in this area. But that financial context matters. Billions of pounds have been lost to fraud during Covid. Billions in dodgy contracts via the Govt's fast track scheme put in the pockets of Tory sponsors and friends. Billions overspend on Track & Trace. You'd think that would deserve more column inches?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 10:18am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well when you 10,000 albanian men claiming asylum here in the last 12 months. Coming from a nation that isn’t at war and is bordered by several safe nations. So braverman like her or not (and i don’t)  has  a point out to say our asylum service is being overrun by spurious  claimants They should be deported and facilities freed to help those in most need eg syruan ir ukraniain families fieeing war. Our asylum system is at breaking point due to people who have no right to be here taking up resources and finances that should be used on genuine refugees . I’d like to see what will happen to pension and benefit increaes and also if we get any more energy support after this 6 months

It's the Express and Mail reporting that figure. Other sources have it at 2400 with 53% accepted. I agree in part with other points you make but I try to see this in context. Asylum costs the UK £2bn a year. Total public spending in the UK is over £1000bn a year. I'll also qualify that with the fact that our tax/GDP ratio is 7% lower than the EU average which suggests room for as much as £150bn in additional revenue each year ... and we still wouldn't be paying as much tax as the Nordic countries (for example). The Express and Mail like to stir up divisive issues. Yet it seems to me that the UK actually has much bigger problems that the right wing press rarely reports on.

That's a brilliant post. I have no numbers but ask yourself just how many are dying because of lack of investment in public healthcare, or as a result of living in poverty. I would wager it is order of magnitudes greater than the numbers you mention RR1972.

And then ask yourself why is it papers such as the Mail and Express focus on immigration rather than other issues such as above? 
i’m all for increasing taxes on the mega rich we can do that was well as crack down in illegal migraton it’s not a binary choice.  It is a fact illegal immigration has an impact on housing nhs not to mention impacts on the services available for genuine refugees. The left leaning political types are mute on this topic and tend to use what aboutery or hurl racism allegations at anyone who broaches the subject.(not saying that about people here) I have no issue in helping genuine refugees but when 1 per cent of albanias total make pooulation arrive her illegally in the last 12 months there is clearly an issue to resolve

No, the Left isn't mute on this. The Left generally says it is our obligation to give asylum to those in need. The Left generally would also want to cooperate with other nations to deal with the criminals that clearly exacerbate the illegal side of this. The right wing media has created the myth of culture wars and directly led to a febrile environment in which people rally to the dogwhistle and the flag. I don't think the Left is innocent in this regard either mind you. Many have fallen for it hook, line and sinker and donned their keyboard warrior garb and given people hell on social media. I just long to see the moderates and the grown-up's take charge again to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 10:18am
Jail the fraudsters and the people snugglers i say. Controversial  but keeping prisoners in jail costs a fortune get all the petty crooks out and doing community work (harder than jail anyhow) hang the paedophiles, murderers and serial rapists fortune saved right there

Edited by RR1972 - 27 October 2022 at 10:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 11:13am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Jail the fraudsters and the people snugglers i say. Controversial  but keeping prisoners in jail costs a fortune get all the petty crooks out and doing community work (harder than jail anyhow) hang the paedophiles, murderers and serial rapists fortune saved right there

We might have to agree to disagree on capital punishment but in essence I agree with your post. Absolutely agree on petty crime. Community/restorative approaches are more effective and in the long run cost less. Absolutely we should jail fraudsters and people smugglers. They cause untold misery and harm. Interestingly, following the 2008 financial crash, Iceland protected deposits then prosecuted those responsible for the financial malfeasance that led to the collapse of their banks. Here, we bailed the banks out, didn't prosecute a single individual and recently we had the spectacle of Truss wanting to get rid of the cap on bankers bonuses. I wonder how things would have panned out had Cameron and Osborne gone after the rogue bankers, protected deposits and loans before letting the failed banks go into administration and raised taxes instead of pursuing austerity. Obviously, against their ideological grain but just curious if a different approach would have had a different result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2022 at 12:59pm
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