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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 6:17pm
Having watched the Lions vs South Africa, many pundits are saying the rugby was dire, despite some of the best players in the world on show.

However, Australia v France, Australia v New Zealand and Harlequins in general have proved rugby doesn’t have to be boring. 

Do you think that rugby has a problem or do you think it’s just the Saffas and a Gatland coached lions that’s at fault?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Emperor Scarlet Emperor wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
I don’t agree with you re the red cards. The only time red cards spoil games IMO is when one team is already substantially stronger and a red for the opposing team can result in an absolute hammering. Otherwise I don’t see red cards making games boring - the games against Scotland and Ireland were quite exciting (the game against Ireland was by no means a classic admittedly). Added to that our games against Benetton and Leinster a few seasons ago were incredibly exciting despite our red cards. And also I do believe the punishments have to remain severe to clamp down on dirty and dangerous play and allowing a sub on after 20 minutes reduces that.
Agreed.

What other sport has a red card that doesn’t mean the rest of the game? Why should, say Ireland be allowed to get back to full strength after POM’s assault on a defenceless player?

By all means, bring in some flexibility on length of yellow cards but I’m not for changing the duration or seriousness of a red. 


Edited by Eastern outpost - 20 March 2021 at 12:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Scarlet Emperor Scarlet Emperor wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
I don’t agree with you re the red cards. The only time red cards spoil games IMO is when one team is already substantially stronger and a red for the opposing team can result in an absolute hammering. Otherwise I don’t see red cards making games boring - the games against Scotland and Ireland were quite exciting (the game against Ireland was by no means a classic admittedly). Added to that our games against Benetton and Leinster a few seasons ago were incredibly exciting despite our red cards. And also I do believe the punishments have to remain severe to clamp down on dirty and dangerous play and allowing a sub on after 20 minutes reduces that.


Edited by Jones2004 - 20 March 2021 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scarlet Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 11:30am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”


They're interesting, I don't like the last one though. Games often open up with there being more gaps in the defence when a team goes down to 14, leading to a greater chance of tries/exciting attacking play. Also only being down to 14 men for 20 minutes makes a more lenient punishment for potential dangerous play etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

Run everything, ban kicking LOLLOLLOLStarStarStar

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by me me wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Lastly I’d put a limit of three subs per game (excluding HIA). Teams would be allowed 6 or 7 players on their bench to reduce chances of uncontested scrums but only three of them could come on. This should force players (especially tight 5 forwards) to lose a bit of size, therefore reducing the size of hits and number of subsequent injuries. It should also allow more space to develop in the last twenty minutes, making the games more exciting. 

I agree reducing the number of subs would be a good thing but the issue is how not to incentivise another “blood gate” where a team could confer a massive advantage in big games from faking injuries. 

I think they should try and reduce the subs to 3 - we should expect props to be able to play Tight head and loose head.
We already see some modern hookers are able to play 8, 2nd rows on the flank, 9s at 10, 10 at 12 etc etc. 

I think the game would benefit from a little less specialisation and thus more fatigue in the final 20 minutes.

Interestingly the Aussie Rules League is introducing injury subs in response to concussion guidelines. But fans have pointed out that teams are likely to abuse it. They are suggesting that any player who comes off as an injury sub has to miss the next fixture (any game in the following 10 days). 

I think a similar thing could be useful in rugby. 3 normal subs allowed and up to 8 injury subs but an inj subbed off player has to miss a game.


Edited by dyniol53 - 19 March 2021 at 3:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 2:55pm
Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2021 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If the Lions tour goes ahead I’d be a worried Gatland. 
South Africa haven’t played since the 2019 RWC final.

The Lions haven’t played since 2017. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2021 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The forming of long caterpillars to protect the scrum half has got to be the most boring aspect of the modern game closely followed by the crouch, set, engage, collapse and start all over again routine of the time consuming scrum.  Whilst I'm at it, the "meeting" before the lineout followed by the slow walk to form the lineout.  I'm sure I've missed a few more boring aspects. 

Quite right - we need a lot more of this.

The rugby these last few weeks is nowhere near the standard of boringness we have been used to, and to which we have an absolute right!

Come on, players!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2021 at 6:23pm
1. Players must get to the line out quicker, failure, sanction free kick.

2. Refs must apply the 5 second rule at ruck time after they've called 'ball available', or change rules to make the charge down of SH's kick a free kick offence. This will reduce the caterpillar or make it defunct.

3. Change the law so that teams cannot choose a penalty scrum, unless it's an attacking 5m scrum.

Those are my recommendations for change. 

Feel free to criticise. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2021 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If the Lions tour goes ahead I’d be a worried Gatland. 
South Africa haven’t played since the 2019 RWC final.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2021 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The forming of long caterpillars to protect the scrum half has got to be the most boring aspect of the modern game closely followed by the crouch, set, engage, collapse and start all over again routine of the time consuming scrum.  Whilst I'm at it, the "meeting" before the lineout followed by the slow walk to form the lineout.  I'm sure I've missed a few more boring aspects. 

I’ll give the ref his dues, when a scrum went down yesterday he told the 9 to use it if it was available rather than reset it. 
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