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Lions 2021

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John View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 7:43am
There are things that can be done: Wyn returns if fit; Beard and AWJ in the second row with Itoje at 6 (that's what the Saffers did); I'd keep Curry at 7 but Navidi at 8 would up the power. I thought Cawdor was lucky to tour but not as lucky as Price and Murray and hopefully he gets his chance. The selection of the back 3 has been a disaster- Liam and Adams definitely come in for the Scots and  Watson would be lucky to hold his place although what happened yesterday wasn't his fault.

I'd also change to Russell at flyhalf but there is no chance of that happening with Gatland as head coach (a sort of a rerun of the whole Warrenball affair).
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 7:57am
What was clever from DeKlerk and Pollard was to challenge Hogg’s positional sense.

Hogg having to come charging up field to take a kick was found out time and again. They kept kicking making him do that. They didn’t kick to grass once.

On the flip side Biggar and Murray got nothing from VDM, Henshaw and Harris chasing kicks. SA players knew exactly what the tactic was going to be and crowded ( legally) the shortest route the chaser could take to the catcher. Meant they didn’t get there, or got there late.

Lawes, Conan and Curry came 2nd best at the breakdown, and they had nothing in the plus columns in terms of carries.
The truth is that we either have modest depth of talent or confused selection thinking at 1,2,4,7,8, 11, 13 and 15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 8:13am
I have been a supporter of Hogg over Liam due to Liam's discipline but he has to play next week - no brainer. Hogg & Duhan were awful. LRZ, Liam & Adams ( who I am still trying to work out why he was not selected ahead of Duhan). We lost the aerial battle and the forward battle - the introduction of de Jaegar tilted the balance big time with their driving maul splintering the Lions. 

Front 5 changes I would certainly have Wyn if fit, start with Ken, George on the bench, Beard to play the same role as de Jaegar. Beirne to start ahead of Lawes, Faletau to start & Navidi at 7. Now we come to 9/10/12/13. Murray is too slow to the breakdown, Biggar doesn't look himself, Harris is an honest player but does not have the class of Foxy in his prime. I would start with Price, Russell, Aki & Henshaw with Cawdor, Farrell & Anthony Watson on the bench. 

Gatland's selections for the 2nd test suggested he was hoping they could catch the Boks cold a second time. He was trying to sneak a win without playing any rugby. Biggar's kicking game is very predictable, Russell mixes things up & LRZ's pace will give the Boks something to think about. The Lions have to go out next week and play - better to lose trying to win than lose trying not to lose if you get my drift.

Finally I am in agreement with fellow posters that Kolbe should have seen red & Faf De Klerk is a really annoying little bugger who seems to get away with blatant foul play. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 8:35am
Yes De Jaeger coming on (at 8) was pivotal, as was Nyakane and Koch. Sutherland in particular getting a torrid time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 9:19am
For me I’d like to see
Furlong Dickie Vunipola
With
Sinkler Owens Wyn Jones (if fit) on bench
Itoje AWJ
Beirne Curry Falateu
With Navidi Lawes on bench
Price with Davis on bench
10 oh dear would love to see Marcus Smith but will never happen think Finn Russell may start with Farrell on the bench as 10/12 cover
Aki and Harris centres
Adams Williams Watson back 3 with Daley Sub as cover for all unfortunately no one else to do it
Big challenges ahead big decisions on players. I don’t think Gatland will make whole sale changes he’s to stubborn.
As for the reffing Kolbe I think in Europe he’d have been off even though he followed the ball all the way through and no one says you have to jump his actions were reckless which would normally be sanctioned with a red. Kolbe head on head is a red under the current laws be it intentionally or accidental its reckless. Faff was a body check so no arms tackle but was one of 3 penalties committed in the 5 metre channel. Offside it would appear is becoming hazey both teams as guilty as other.
I think the back rows should have come on earlier to affect change at the contact area I mean Beirne for 10 mins is ridiculous one of the best jacklers about and would have added weight and energy at scrum time.
Back 3 we’re hopeless would LRZ on the pitch bug can’t see it though
Here’s hoping for a W 👍🍺
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 11:05am
Got to go for broke though he won’t Liam LRZ Adams Henshaw and AKi, Smith and Cawdor wyn George and Furlong, AWJ Itoje, Bierne Faletau and Curry. 
No Farrell  or any jocks near the team with Townsend on next plane home. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 11:13am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Just watched it - iesu grist! Completely dominated. 

Other than the back three I’m not sure where the lions turn!!

finn russell?

I would like that because I think his form for 2 years deserves it, but if the area we lost it was the high ball, Dan Biggar is one of the best under the high ball in the game. 

I can’t see Gatland dropping Biggar or Farrell. 

There’s a funny paradox where the Lions got dominated up front, to the breakdown and in the mauls - yet the positions everyone wants to change are in the backs!

BUT there’s a legitimate argument for each and every back to be changed - bar maybe Henshaw who is v good in defence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 11:25am
I think Wyn's fitness is vital now, he should start even if he's only got 40 minutes in him, I do feel Williams & Adams must come back in, and Aki is at least a nuisance, physical and knows Henshaw. Half backs are a problem, I do think Murray & Biggar will start, as we were in the game at half time, and then maybe Davies & Russel to come on for last 30 minutes, by that time it may be s*** or bust. Is Alun Wyn fit for another huge battle, if he is fine then if not Henderson should come in, but that creates another problem, who would captain the side, Ken if playing, but was not at his best yesterday, Beirne and Faletau  in the back row. Will Gatland decide who to pick now and tell the rest back room staff, I've been there and won, you haven't. 

My gut feeling is the Lions will not come back from this, it was a bad day at the office, caused by a really good display by the SA team, and many a poor performance from the Lions players. only around 6 days to go !!
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 11:27am
Originally posted by John John wrote:

There are things that can be done: Wyn returns if fit; Beard and AWJ in the second row with Itoje at 6 (that's what the Saffers did); I'd keep Curry at 7 but Navidi at 8 would up the power. I thought Cawdor was lucky to tour but not as lucky as Price and Murray and hopefully he gets his chance. The selection of the back 3 has been a disaster- Liam and Adams definitely come in for the Scots and  Watson would be lucky to hold his place although what happened yesterday wasn't his fault.

I'd also change to Russell at flyhalf but there is no chance of that happening with Gatland as head coach (a sort of a rerun of the whole Warrenball affair).

Interesting option. With a Lawes or Bierne to come on for beard or awj 60mins. 

Gah very frustrating but I don’t think Beirne will get a start as I just think he’s 10% less physical than Lawes/Itoje which means he doesn’t get to start. 

Do we think 60 mins from the start we would see a Bierne at his best - or would we see a Bierne out muscled a la Leinster Euro Semi Final? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 12:10pm
BeArd in for awj makes sense to me, adams and liam in to back 3 but i think the boks pack is too good for the lions and their half backs are excellent kickers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 12:27pm
Allegations of a Stuart Hogg bite from SA fans but nothing official.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 12:34pm
Citing officer is going to a busy man this week for sure. Hogg, Kolbe, Faf & de Allende could be in the dock. I would support all being given 4 week bans as Hogg ain't going to be picked next week anyway.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 2:24pm
Wasn’t Russell injured earlier in the tour? Has he overcome his injury and does he have enough fitness? Also, does he have enough sharpness with the players around him, which is even more important considering how much of a maverick he is. These doubts would be enough for me not to pick him, and stick with the safer but less dangerous Biggar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 2:29pm
kolbe was a red card all day long. Id really welsh things up...we did win the 6 nations after all and the saes were bottom yet somehow have 5 forwards in the starting team against a team who demolished england at rwc?

Id bring in all welsh back 3, welsh 8, welsh 9, scots fly half, wyn jones, then navidi and beard to bench 
ken didnt do enough though


Edited by roy munster - 01 August 2021 at 2:30pm
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 4:06pm
Some great posts on here, summing up a disappointing outcome for the Lions,& an even more disappointing performance.
I have considerable admiration for Warren Gatland. His record for Wales & Lions is outstanding!
The problem however ,in this series, is Warren himself. He picked a squad capable of testing the boks, playing a faster, dynamic game, something we have seen nothing of! Once South Africa 
" found their feet" however, we were never going to out-muscle them.

Gatland's selection of Van der Merwe, just sums up the approach. Here is a guy with the stature of a back row forward , playing in the backs(something favoured by Gatland), but with an all round skill set, considerably less than his physical presence. Adams surely MUST come in for the decider. Also, its not surprising that Rob Baxter didn't pick Hogg for some key end of season games for Exeter, for although elusive, has been sorely found out under the high ball. Liam Williams, now the obvious choice.
To complete the assessment of the back three, I am admirer of Watson, but he also made mistakes, and despite having few chances, it may time to gamble on Rees Zammitt.
Regarding half backs  I cannot see Gatland replacing Biggar, and will he revert to Price over the experienced Murray. Difficult calls.
Harris is an excellent defensive centre, but do we gamble on more of a line breaker , as in Bunki Aki ?
In the forwards, we don't  know how fit Wyn Jones is. If he is not 100%, he does not play, but if he is, I would play him, as Mako Vunipola is great coming off the bench ,as in first test.In the back row, I would swop Courtney Lawes and Tag Beirne, to ensure we compete better at the breakdown. Lawes would be fresh to be brought on, to win late vital line out ball. Faletau to replace Conan, who again could be brought on for impact. Probably a 6-2 split on bench

All the above are tough calls.
Team..Williams, Rees-Zammit, Henshaw, Aki, Adams, Bigger, Price, Jones, Cowan -Dickie, Furlong,AWJ, Itoje, Beirne, Falatau, Curry.
Bench...Russell, Murray, Vunipola, Owens, Sinker, Henderson, Lawes, Conan

Key issue is not just personnel changes, but the method and style of play. Tempo, quick recycling  to extend Boks, the bring on fresh legs to finish the job. 
Sounds simple ,and of course we know its not, as the Boks will strangle the life out of you, with space at a premium.
Its better however, to give it a go , than to "die wondering"!.
One thing is for sure, if everything remains the same, there will be only one winner sadly !

To finish on a high however..... if I picked my "Best Scarlets " team I have seen since the late 60's.
14 of the starters would be LIONS, and 5 0f the bench would also be. Nineteen of the  Twenty Three LIONS. That's a HUGE thing to be proud of, and something few can match.


I stood yer on tanner bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grammar School Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 4:38pm
Itoje may well be cited also
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