Racism in football
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Topic: Racism in football
Posted By: Abbey
Subject: Racism in football
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 8:16am
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The support shown last night for Suarez has baffled me. Is it really that honourable for players to wear t-shirts in support of a colleague found guilty of racism? If any of my colleagues uttered any kind of racist remark I would make sure they were sacked and not show unstinting support. Terry, on the other hand, may be innocent - the truth will out in due course. But most professionals would find themselves suspended on full pay if they were on such a charge (think teachers, police etc). All the press seem to care about is whether he should continue as England captain. Racism is one of the most abhorrent things a society can tollerate - whatever form it takes or to whoever it is directed at. I think football writers and players have lost sight of that fact. Feel free to disagree, but I WILL judge you (ha ha!!) |
Replies:
Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 8:28am
No,
------------- In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty" "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
Abbey wrote:Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 9:24am
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I can only think his colleagues know what really happenend and they genuinely feel he has been treated unfairly. The written report will be very interesting. |
Posted By: A Evans
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 9:42am
------------- We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 9:46am
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It also makes you wonder why the BBC keeps pixelating out Terry's outburst on the TV. I suppose in-case someone can lip-read and take offence. |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:11am
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ok... I'm going to be a devil's advocate here. If that was a court case then it would have been thrown out before even getting there. The case was totally on the hearsay of Evra (a character with shall we say a chequered past, unproven racist remarks by a Chelsea groundsman, a player that goes on strike at the world cup). now Evra has admitted that he had also verbally abused Suarez in spanish at the game, but no charges have been brought up for him... to me and this is how I feel.. it is a concerted attack by Man Utd against a liverpool player that they fear very very much.... we all have language difficulties and some things in welsh would be a front to english people.. to call Suarez a racist when he himself is of mixed raced origin is laughable ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:18am
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this is also quite alarming Alan Hansen is in hot water for saying the word coloured on Match of the Day last night... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: A Evans
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:18am
------------- We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:24am
Just noticed this, yes it is pretty baffling, I agree. I wonder if it's part of the mentality of football - even if guilty, you will say you're innocent and appeal. Look at football players protesting they didn't dive, didn't foul etc. even when it's blatantly obvious they did. And their team mates and fans back them up 100%. Not really surprising this extends into accusations of racism as well. You are comparing football to normal professions, which unfortunately I don't think really works. Football players are similar to rock stars in that they are exempt from the normal rules of accepted social behaviour and are too rich, famous and idolised to be as easily sacked. There are different rules for different jobs, I'm afraid. Football players are allowed to do as much coke, bang as many prostitutes, set off as many fire works in their own houses, and be as abusive as they like with the minimum of punishment. At least something IS being done here. I wonder how many of these type of things have gone completely unreported because the victim knows nothing would ever happen? Taylor's comments were interesting: Professional Footballers' Association chief executive Gordon Taylor said: "It's important that when players come to this country they appreciate that while we are very culturally diverse, very cosmopolitan, that's it's also a job for the PFA and the FA and the clubs themselves to educate them. "That means not just the rules of the game but what's acceptable as the law of the land, and what isn't acceptable both on and off the pitch. This is about treating people equally." Taylor also revealed how attempts by his organisation to mediate between Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra failed. "I didn't want [the case] to escalate, but I wasn't able to get the players together," Taylor said. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:29am
People of mixed race can be racist you know.
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:50am
Pasty boy.
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 11:07am
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that's it SA14. I'm calling the police as you are being racist to the Cornish.. perhaps any welshman called Taffy by the english should also call the police or scotsmen called Jock.... very ropey ground.... Doc, Suarez played last year for Ajax with one of the largest compliment of black people in the league... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 11:17am
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Good point regarding football not being like other professions. Perhaps I've started this thread and imposed my own morals. I did cringe at Terry's statement which was "some of my best friends are black". I do see where Sal is coming from as one person can say "you're a ******" and the other will say "and you're a black ******" but I personally feel that there is no two ways about racism. My main point was that the Liverpool players went out of their way to support someone who had been found guilty of racism and I find that a little disturbing as it condones the action. By the way, "coloured" is a stupid term used by grannies and was stamped out when Love thy Neighbour and It aint Half Hot Mum were booted off the TV along with the odious Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning. Hansen should know better as the term infers that someone is different with a "colour" but we're "normal". |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 1:10pm
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Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 1:22pm
But that doesnt mean he wasnt naughty like,,
------------- In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty" "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 1:25pm
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Apologists for Suarez say that he was only using language acceptable at home in Uraguay. The Times sums this up perfectly: "Suarez maintained that the word negrito, which he admitted calling Evra on a number of occasions, is a strictly neutral term which is widely used at home in Uraguay. Quite why, in the course of an evidently heated argument, Suarez felt the need to point out the colour of Evra's skin, he was unable to explain". |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 1:29pm
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 1:36pm
Suarez on the other hand used the word "Negrito" ("little black man" I believe), which he states can be used in an affectionate way, which I doubt it was in the middle of a bust up with Evra. He pleaded ignorance which in this day and age doesn't wash with me, he's been in Europe long enough to know the differences.
I'd comment more on Terry if I knew what he said but the media have scrambled it, one report said he was retorting to Ferdinand saying "I didn't call you a ##### #######". In both cases I find it hard to believe there is full on racism, as surely it would have risen it's ugly head before now as they both play in multi-racial sides as well as against similar teams?
No room for it in society, let alone sport. Although it doesn't do any harm educating people as bigoted comments have been known to appear on this very forum, and if the people responsible want to moan then i'm sure the topics can be referenced.
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 3:54pm
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big differences here... Ron Atkinson - Stupid black B*****d John Terry - (allegedly) Black C*** Suarez - Negrito.... now the word Neger is used throughout europe as a a Neutral term for black people... the point is where do we draw the line. the word N****r which I find highly offensive as it is a slang word. Neger is commonly used in Holland and Germany... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: John_Radio
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 4:10pm
'alfwits! ------------- Pint for John? |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 5:58pm
Are you saying that word or quoting it? This could lead to the return of Regan's love child and a ban for you.
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Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 6:53pm
Funnily enough, I'm currently reading a book on the moon landings and in setting the scene for life in the 1960s, it says that at that time Americans were still using the term Negro which showed how "backward" race relations were. I thought that was a long time ago. |
Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 7:16pm
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The difference I've been told between John Terry's case and Luis Suarez's incident is that no-one (i'm lead to believe) overheard what Suarez said to Evra. On the other hand people DID hear what Terry said to Ferdinand - and there is video footage of the incident to back up the charge against him. If Suarez is guilty and banned for 8 matches on the evidence of the person accusing him, what the hell is going to happen to John Terry?? Banned for a season??  ------------- Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James. |
Posted By: maldwyn
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 7:17pm
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Can't make my mind up which one I dislike most the racist the footballer or the football fan. ------------- Up the bum no harm done. |
Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 7:29pm
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Cmon guy ..people are suffering , the worlds ecconomy is in pieces and people are being lest homeless and we are talking about a bunch of over paid [beep]s...get a grip they are a bunch of inbred c**** who deserve f*** all
------------- I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 7:48pm
Context is everything. "Black" is [currently] a non-racist term. "Stupid" and "Bastard" are non-racist, but offensive, terms. But calling someone a "stupid black bastard", however, is abusing someone specifically because of their race, i.e. that is racist. So if you are specifically referencing somebody's race in an offensive manner, you are liable to have that deemed as racially offensive. Therefore, what Suarez said in and arounds the word "negrito" are key to this whole debate (the "...." in your post). If he was being abusive towards Evra and included a word defining the colour of Evra's skin as part of this, that would be deemed as racial abuse, as per the above example. He has been found guilty of this and disciplined. As you say, and this should be the main point of this IMO, it is still only Evra's word against Suarez's here, which is presumably the point the Liverpool players were trying to make. |
Posted By: A Evans
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 7:51pm
------------- We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. |
Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 8:19pm
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You guys all need to get things in perspective
------------- I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 9:57am
------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 7:11pm
| so it's ok because only one person heard it? |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 10:20pm
------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 10:24pm
------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 10:31pm
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Quote from the web:-
It is similar to the use of the word " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigga" rel="nofollow - nigga " in urban communities in the United States. For example, one might say to a friend, "Negro ¿Como andas? (literally "Hey, black one, how are you doing?"). In this case, the diminutive negrito is used, as a term of endearment meaning "pal", "buddy" or "friend". Negrito has come to be used to refer to a person of any ethnicity or color, and also can have a sentimental or romantic connotation similar to "sweetheart," or "dear" in English
------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 24 December 2011 at 4:32pm
I doubt Suarez was using the word in any of those contexts. Remember this was allegedly used when he was being aggressive and abusive towards Evra; it's not as though he was trying to say "how's it going pal?" and it was misunderstood. It's an interesting discussion about what is racist or not and this revolves around factors such as not just the word itself but the context in which it's used and also the people involved and their relationship with each other. For example, the word "nigga" may well be used within certain urban communities as a term of endearment, yet it's not acceptable to shout it at a relative stranger when you're annoyed with them, is it? Even the terms "sweetheart" and "dear", which initially appear innocuous, can be used in incredibly sexist and offensive manners.
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Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 24 December 2011 at 7:08pm
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iTS LIKE ME CALLING YOU A SHORT ARSE..yOU ARE BUT YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT
------------- I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand |
Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 25 December 2011 at 1:00am
And you have a bigger belly than me, you may not like it, but tough big boy from the Pink......Merry Christmas alleyman.... ------------- In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty" "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
Posted By: New_scarlet
Date Posted: 27 December 2011 at 5:09pm
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Posted By: A Evans
Date Posted: 27 December 2011 at 8:22pm
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This whole argument can be summed up by one thing. If your a Liverpool fan you back him, if you aint you dont, simple.
------------- We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. |
Posted By: Gary Coleman
Date Posted: 28 December 2011 at 12:41pm
Isn't buying black people illegal since 1833? |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 31 December 2011 at 5:55pm
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An official document on the ban has been released: http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx" rel="nofollow - http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx Summary is on page 111. Two very different stories about what was said during Evra and Suarez coming together - in Evra's case Suarez is clearly being abusive, and includes the colour of Evra's skin as part of this abuse, whereas in Suarez's version he is diffusing the situation by use of the word negrito in a friendly way and by pinching Evra (page 5). Suarez's version was not believed and the evidence he gave along with his performance as a witness was seen as unreliable.
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Posted By: Turkish Fez
Date Posted: 31 December 2011 at 7:28pm
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I work in London and have a lot to do with the South American Community and it is common for Colombian's for instance to refer to small Black Colombian friends as Negrito, some even have it as there nickname. Blimey it was not that long ago that Sean Fitpatrick caused a storm playing against England when he said when Victor Ubogu came on the pitch 'lets see if the Black B-----d can scrum!'. He was AB captain and probably the most respected players in the world and a strong supporter of Ethnic culture and differences. ------------- We all had Doctor's papers! |
Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 8:44am
We draw the line at what people actually believe to be offensive, and here the word was found to be offensive and a complaint made. Had nobody complained, then fair enough, but a complaint was made, which is grounds enough. The point about racism is that it doesn't matter whether the person who made the remark was a racist or not, and it doesn't matter whether they intended to offend or not. What matters is that offense was taken by another person. It doesn't even have to be the person that the word was aimed at, who was offended. That person might not be offended; but if someone in the crowd, or watching on TV took offense, then that is also grounds for charging someone. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: gnasher1975
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 2:27pm
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If you are suspending somebody for being racist and not taking his background or culture into account in any way shape or form is that not a form of racism in itself?? Graham taylor is quoted as saying "That means not just the rules of the game but what's acceptable as the law of the land, and what isn't acceptable both on and off the pitch. This is about treating people equally." When Evra has openly admitted he was abusive to suarez and said personal things about his family. So when is Evra going to be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 29 January 2012 at 11:56am
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So Evra gets booed when he returns to Anfield. Liverpool obviously has a problem with reality, as does Kenny Dalglish. At the press conference after the game, he was asked if he felt any sympathy for Evra considering the abuse he was subjected to by the fans (one of which has been arrested, by the way). He responded by saying "Are you winding me up? Why would I be disappointed for Patrice Evra?" He went on to talk about how he'd been booed as a footballer (what, exactly, does that have to do with it?). He then asked if anyone had any more questions about the actual game when he was asked, again, about the Evra treatment: "You don't see it as an issue that a player who has been racially abused has then been abused by the crowd?" His answer? "I cannot believe you asked that question.......the fans are entitled to support their team, no problem, a bit of banter between two teams, and I don't think there was anything there that was untoward". Dalglish (and the Liverpool fans, for that matter) obviously have serious issues. You'd have thought that Dalglish, having dealt with the matter so appalingly originally would have had time to reflect and offer some kind of tacit apology or even a minor acknowledgement of wrongdoing but apprently not. Perhaps the Man Utd chants to Liverpool of "Always the victim, never your fault" was spot on. Perhaps, also, Dalglish is so steeped in the sectarian nonsense of Glasgow that he can't see what's wrong with his supporters booing someone that was racially abused by one of his players. Whatever respect I may have had for Kenny Dalglish has now been completely destroyed. |
Posted By: y ddraig bwyd
Date Posted: 29 January 2012 at 12:32pm
Agree totally Abbey  Dalglish no longer has any credability and the chant "always the victim, never your fault" really does sum up Liverpool FC as history proves!! ------------- y ddraig bwyd |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 January 2012 at 12:19pm
superb post!!!
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