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lofty evans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

They're only sorry they got caught.

Gutted they got caught....sorry is not in their vocabulary 
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Legendinmybathroom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 3:44pm
Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.

Excellent post 
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 5:41pm
His letter,  was a "sham", like the man himself. 
It's remarkable  how these people can worm their way into positions  of authority, that they shouldn't  be near in the next world,  leave alone this one.
Look at the list..Johnson, Braverman, Hancock, and now this idiot Zahawi! 
Just throw in Liz Truss for sheer incompetence, and you have the "famous five".
I stood yer on tanner bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.

I think it's convention. They're asked to resign and by convention they offer that via a letter. In effect they've been sacked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 7:47pm
James O'Brian on LBC tomorrow morning will be interesting ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 8:20pm
Meanwhile in llanelli labour spend millions on a bike bridge no one asked for, thats caused chaos and blockages in trostre for nigh on a year 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Meanwhile in llanelli labour spend millions on a bike bridge no one asked for, thats caused chaos and blockages in trostre for nigh on a year 

Is it for cyclists? Cool. I look forward to using it. Can use it to avoid Trostre roundabout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 8:39pm
We need a shock to Welsh labours senses , vote plaid , if nothing more than to put some fireworks under their arses 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.

I think it's convention. They're asked to resign and by convention they offer that via a letter. In effect they've been sacked.

That’s where convention is sometimes wrong (especially in public office).  So by allowing him to write a resignation letter you are allowing him (and he’s not the only one) to walk away and save face, despite bringing the role of whichever cabinet position he’s in at the time into disrepute despite committing an offence which would probably have seen a business person of a less higher profile jailed and not just fined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2023 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.

I think it's convention. They're asked to resign and by convention they offer that via a letter. In effect they've been sacked.

That’s where convention is sometimes wrong (especially in public office).  So by allowing him to write a resignation letter you are allowing him (and he’s not the only one) to walk away and save face, despite bringing the role of whichever cabinet position he’s in at the time into disrepute despite committing an offence which would probably have seen a business person of a less higher profile jailed and not just fined.

Totally agree. The so called constitution of the UK is entirely not fit for purpose. The UK is and always has been a class based state and it is rigged in favour of the wealthy. If you want to know why Wales, the west and north of England are beset by poverty, it's because it suited the wealthy class to disinvest from industry and focus instead on financial services, just as at one time, it suited the capitalists of the day to employ workers in brutal conditions to their benefit. Not much has changed in the dynamic between Britain's classes except that workers gained concessions through the unions and through them, a Labour Party to represent them. Sadly, the State is still so heavily rigged that in order to gain power, Labour are forced into small-c conservativism in order to be electable. IMHO they've not achieved any real permanent change in the UK. Every Labour reform, every construct is eroded and unpicked by the Tories. We're in danger of losing the NHS now. The greatest of all the Labour govts (1945) will soon have no remaining legacy - that is how the UK operates. Anything worthwhile is washed away like castles made of sand (Beautiful Hendrix song btw). This is why, whenever I hear the British Left (speaking as a Liberal Lefty) use the word "radical", I laugh out loud. Only ever a matter of time untill the Tories get in power and bin Labour's changes.

This is a State rigged in the Tories favour. They've been in power for 90 out of the past 120 years. Wales has not once elected these bCensored's since working men were first given the vote 170 years ago. Most people in Wales moan like hell about the Tories but when people like me say that we could be rid of them if we voted to establish a Welsh State it's all "oh we're too poor, too small, not good enough for that." Iesu Grist, Welsh people need to grow a pair.

Sorry Legend - not aimed at you. Just me ranting in frustration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 7:53am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why Zahawi wrote the resignation letter. - I thought he was allegedly sacked by Sunak.
It sound like he jumped but the Tory party are suggesting that Sunak had grown a pair (finally) and sacked him.
The fact that he is still in denial that he had done anything wrong and that he’s blaming everyone else (press mostly) for his downfall just sums up how corrupt he is.  However, this could be blessing in disguise for him - he is now free to earn yet more money off the back of his notoriety, within the corporate business scene -far more than his measly MPs salary would give him.
If he only had one stream of income (MPs salary, which is considerably more than the national average) then this incident wouldn’t have happened, but Tory greed shines through again.  They reckon that a majority of the Tory party are millionaires, so you have to ask why they need to take on the responsibility of representing constituents for literally peanuts (to them) unless the only true reason is to use the power and prestige to get themselves known and to build their reputation within the corporate business world.

I think it's convention. They're asked to resign and by convention they offer that via a letter. In effect they've been sacked.

That’s where convention is sometimes wrong (especially in public office).  So by allowing him to write a resignation letter you are allowing him (and he’s not the only one) to walk away and save face, despite bringing the role of whichever cabinet position he’s in at the time into disrepute despite committing an offence which would probably have seen a business person of a less higher profile jailed and not just fined.

Totally agree. The so called constitution of the UK is entirely not fit for purpose. The UK is and always has been a class based state and it is rigged in favour of the wealthy. If you want to know why Wales, the west and north of England are beset by poverty, it's because it suited the wealthy class to disinvest from industry and focus instead on financial services, just as at one time, it suited the capitalists of the day to employ workers in brutal conditions to their benefit. Not much has changed in the dynamic between Britain's classes except that workers gained concessions through the unions and through them, a Labour Party to represent them. Sadly, the State is still so heavily rigged that in order to gain power, Labour are forced into small-c conservativism in order to be electable. IMHO they've not achieved any real permanent change in the UK. Every Labour reform, every construct is eroded and unpicked by the Tories. We're in danger of losing the NHS now. The greatest of all the Labour govts (1945) will soon have no remaining legacy - that is how the UK operates. Anything worthwhile is washed away like castles made of sand (Beautiful Hendrix song btw). This is why, whenever I hear the British Left (speaking as a Liberal Lefty) use the word "radical", I laugh out loud. Only ever a matter of time untill the Tories get in power and bin Labour's changes.

This is a State rigged in the Tories favour. They've been in power for 90 out of the past 120 years. Wales has not once elected these bCensored's since working men were first given the vote 170 years ago. Most people in Wales moan like hell about the Tories but when people like me say that we could be rid of them if we voted to establish a Welsh State it's all "oh we're too poor, too small, not good enough for that." Iesu Grist, Welsh people need to grow a pair.

Sorry Legend - not aimed at you. Just me ranting in frustration.

The reality is nothing will change until the Labour party are brave enough to introduce PR which will include both parliament & cabinet made up along PR rules. A natural check and balance could then be introduced to our politics. That has to be the start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 9:08am
Oh no, not PR because then a small group of political extremists could wield disproportionate power. Will be what the DM, Express say.

If Labour were to campaign on electoral reform - and abolishing the HoL is at least one small step to this - I do wonder just how successful this would be at present. I say this because another part of our current situation is that: 1) voting percentage rise with age and so the issues parties campaign on are therefore targeted accordingly. 2) there is a tribal nature which I will speculate also increases with age and it is pretty clear the Conservatives gain the majority of their votes from the 60+ category. 3) And then the population of the UK is aging as life expectancy increases, at a greater level for higher income groups.

There are, however, indications that current 30s/40s are not drifting right to the Conservatives. After what I have witnessed in the last 13 years it is simply impossible that I will ever vote for them. Many feel similar. This trend is newer and may mean the Conservative party is in deep trouble in 10 or 20 years time.

There is an inherent age generalisation within my post, I know (and do apologise for but we are taking majority here), but you can examine the data and things such as voting percentage and particularly Conservative vote do indeed increase with age across the UK. Take this as a quick 2019 example (plus another quid to Zahari's company):


I also put forward that the UK, current parties, political system, population distribution, class system whatever you wish to nominate, is currently unsuited to any forward-looking reform-based government.

And, if so, this is why the decline of the UK appears unsolvable in the near future. And I include a new Labour Government in that. Even with a majority, I just am not sure they will be able to get much done, nor will be elected on any pledge to get much done. We've seen Starmer back out of PR already, for example. It's perceived as too high-risk, for reasons I suggest above.


Edited by dr_martinov - 30 January 2023 at 9:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 9:41am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Oh no, not PR because then a small group of political extremists could wield disproportionate power. Will be what the DM, Express say.

If Labour were to campaign on electoral reform - and abolishing the HoL is at least one small step to this - I do wonder just how successful this would be at present. I say this because another part of our current situation is that: 1) voting percentage rise with age and so the issues parties campaign on are therefore targeted accordingly. 2) there is a tribal nature which I will speculate also increases with age and it is pretty clear the Conservatives gain the majority of their votes from the 60+ category. 3) And then the population of the UK is aging as life expectancy increases, at a greater level for higher income groups.

There are, however, indications that current 30s/40s are not drifting right to the Conservatives. After what I have witnessed in the last 13 years it is simply impossible that I will ever vote for them. Many feel similar. This trend is newer and may mean the Conservative party is in deep trouble in 10 or 20 years time.

There is an inherent age generalisation within my post, I know (and do apologise for but we are taking majority here), but you can examine the data and things such as voting percentage and particularly Conservative vote do indeed increase with age across the UK. Take this as a quick 2019 example (plus another quid to Zahari's company):


I also put forward that the UK, current parties, political system, population distribution, class system whatever you wish to nominate, is currently unsuited to any forward-looking reform-based government.

And, if so, this is why the decline of the UK appears unsolvable in the near future. And I include a new Labour Government in that. Even with a majority, I just am not sure they will be able to get much done, nor will be elected on any pledge to get much done. We've seen Starmer back out of PR already, for example. It's perceived as too high-risk, for reasons I suggest above.

Of course the age differential is an important factor but we cannot get away from the fact that PR is clearly the most democratic answer. My own feeling is that voter turnout is clearly lowered under the existing system where "safe" seats of either main parties are deemed uncontestable. That should change with PR and we should end up getting a far more balanced political establishment voted in by a a larger % of those entitled to vote. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 11:32am
If you get under the stats of voter turnout then it has been increasing in Wales and Scotland over the last decade particularly for local/national elections which tends to be masked by reports focusing on Uk statics .
Agree first past the post should have  has had its day . Think the Uk and USA are the only major democracies left where a party can get control with a minority share of the overall vote.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 12:12pm
I was never convinced  by PR, but would be prepared  to give it a good hard look.I have read a lot of what Totallybiasedscarlet  has posted on here, and quit liked what I read.
I will be honest and pragmatic  here, apart from doing what's right for democracy,  I would support  anything that prevents the Tories winning.
Regarding  Plaid Cymru, they are in an absolute  mess.
How can they lecture  any else when their own internal governance  is a shambles.  The "Edwards scenario" in Carmarthen  East,is just one example.
My friends in Plaid tell me that a challenge to Adam Price is imminently possible,  but the current political  situation  nationally  ,holding  that off.
It's clear to me we need a strong Plaid to  be wining seats where they are best placed to beat Tories.
I stood yer on tanner bank
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