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Wales v England teams

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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 12:03pm
I get what you’re saying though SA14.

If both had been overturned we’d all be raging. 

For the first one we would be saying “by the letter of the law it’s a try” and for the 2nd one we’d be saying “well he’s knocked it onto his leg and it’s gone backwards - what’s the problem?” And we’d be quoting the laws quoted above.

So it’s a funny one. It’s clear to say that England got the rough end of the stick and had to fight an uphill battle in that first half.

But as said above once the scores got to 24-24 England failed to tighten up their discipline and gave away 3 more penalties that didn’t really need to be given...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think most will now agree that the ref got both decisions wrong and that the TMO was culpable in the 2nd. Will Greenwood, who usually can be relied upon to give a balanced considered view, believes that despite those errors Wales were deserving winners because at 24-24 they continued to play, not just continue but stepped up their attacking efforts with Sheedy looking to get flat and take on the English defence. England had the momentum but Wales decided to go and win the game. 

We can all try to double guess what would have happened if Wales only led 6-3 instead of 17-3, what would have happened if Itoje had correctly been binned for 10 minutes just before half time when he conceded his 4th penalty. We don't however have to guess what happened with scores tied and England with momentum on 65 minutes.

Quite right in all you say - England then gave away several unnecessary pens, three of which Sheedy kicked to take us 9 points clear - they imploded, basically, when cool heads were needed.

They only have themselves to blame.

Zero sympathy from me!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 12:13pm
A side effect of teams being so ill disciplined against us is that we don’t seem to have to spend long periods with the ball in possession.

Usually Wales look their worst/most clueless when we’re attacking for multiple but not getting over the gain line. 

As a Welsh fan these were always the most demoralising moments under gatland and last year - but no one has made us play with the ball for longer than 5-6 phases without giving a penalty away this 6N.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 12:39pm
wales have generally been a clean side , infinitely cleaner than the all blacks thats for sure. Theyd go in with pre meditated plans to hurt people. Now finally with the laws and refs and cameras all tightening up , this could become a big factor in which sides are most successful in future. 
If england had the rub of the green as they usually do at twickenham then the biased english press wouldnt even mention it. How many times has farrell got away with disgusting high tackles, forearms smashes at twickenham? Hopefully no longer


Edited by roy munster - 03 March 2021 at 12:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think most will now agree that the ref got both decisions wrong and that the TMO was culpable in the 2nd.
I’d say the first try was not wrong, just not entirely even handed. This may have arisen because of the reap what you sow truism. Conducting ref diplomacy if you’re Farrell or Sexton, for example, must be much more difficult than a Warburton.

It’s very wearing to have an abrasive whinger and at times it can penetrate the armour of even the best ref. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think most will now agree that the ref got both decisions wrong and that the TMO was culpable in the 2nd.
I’d say the first try was not wrong, just not entirely even handed. This may have arisen because of the reap what you sow truism. Conducting ref diplomacy if you’re Farrell or Sexton, for example, must be much more difficult than a Warburton.

It’s very wearing to have an abrasive whinger and at times it can penetrate the armour of even the best ref. 

55 seconds from when the pen was awarded to when biggar kicked it is plenty of time for farrell to sort himself and his team mates out, 100% fine try 1

Try 2, I assume its a knock on so a mistake seems to have been made
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think most will now agree that the ref got both decisions wrong and that the TMO was culpable in the 2nd.
I’d say the first try was not wrong, just not entirely even handed. This may have arisen because of the reap what you sow truism. Conducting ref diplomacy if you’re Farrell or Sexton, for example, must be much more difficult than a Warburton.

It’s very wearing to have an abrasive whinger and at times it can penetrate the armour of even the best ref. 

55 seconds from when the pen was awarded to when biggar kicked it is plenty of time for farrell to sort himself and his team mates out, 100% fine try 1

Try 2, I assume its a knock on so a mistake seems to have been made

I think the issue is more the length of time from when the ref said "talk to your players" to when time was back on. How long was this and what is typical?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think most will now agree that the ref got both decisions wrong and that the TMO was culpable in the 2nd.
I’d say the first try was not wrong, just not entirely even handed. This may have arisen because of the reap what you sow truism. Conducting ref diplomacy if you’re Farrell or Sexton, for example, must be much more difficult than a Warburton.

It’s very wearing to have an abrasive whinger and at times it can penetrate the armour of even the best ref. 

55 seconds from when the pen was awarded to when biggar kicked it is plenty of time for farrell to sort himself and his team mates out, 100% fine try 1

Try 2, I assume its a knock on so a mistake seems to have been made

I think the issue is more the length of time from when the ref said "talk to your players" to when time was back on. How long was this and what is typical?

I think it was around 20-25 seconds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 2:19pm
The first 33 seconds he spends lecturing farrell is relelvant too as combined with the 22 seconds he gives farrell to lecture his endlessly rule breaking team, is a total of 55 seconds from the penalty awarded to being taken. Thats long enough imo. why should wales be slowed down by the endless cheating rule breaking then be slowed even further by the arguing and internal lectring within english ranks. the ref is doing them a favor with the warning as any more and its a yellow card. Itoje was very lucky not to get carded. Genge had a few ropey moments too. I dont care how much pressure the enlgish media and hype put on it, the first try 55 seconds was plenty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 2:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Double standards anyone???


Classic lol Its not identical but its pretty close...Ive seen loads of tries given like that and with water carriers everywhere
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 3:33pm
I think its pretty relevant when the ref admits he has made two mistakes. We can dress this up in any way you like but we were gifted 11 points. We won't be the first or last to benefit this way but lets stop trying to justify the unjustifiable. 

Welsh discipline and willingness to play the full 80 should be celebrated as the main reason we sit 3 from 3 despite the failings of other teams and brain farts by referees and TMO's. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I think its pretty relevant when the ref admits he has made two mistakes. We can dress this up in any way you like but we were gifted 11 points. We won't be the first or last to benefit this way but lets stop trying to justify the unjustifiable. 

Welsh discipline and willingness to play the full 80 should be celebrated as the main reason we sit 3 from 3 despite the failings of other teams and brain farts by referees and TMO's. 

Yes plus alertness, professionalism, taking our chances clinically, pretty good defence, improving lineout, brave substitutions, bit of extra width when its on and bit of luck with injuries at last. I think our year of misery has a few silver linings in that pivac has tested and tried out a few newbies and some have come through with flying colours. Our main criticism of gats was some years he simply didnt blood enough new caps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 4:07pm
Rough look at the depth in welsh rugby

15 liam / hapenny/Holmes
14 LRZ / Johnny mac/owen lane/steff/giles
13 north / foxy/tompkin
12 williams/halahola/watkin/
11 adams/amos//luke morgan/conbeer
10 biggar / sheedy/evans/patchell
9 cawdor/hardy/tomow/webb/williams
8 faletau/moriarty/wainwright
7 tips/cubby/macleod/jac morgan
6 navidi/botham/ellis jenkins
5 awj/cory hill/rowlands
4 beard/ball/seb davies
3 wyn j/brown/rob evs/
2 ken/dee/elias
1 frances/carre/samson/will gruff

Thats crazy depth and quality compared to previous years decades..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 4:14pm
Also suggests three regions would be the right number (plus one purely developmental maybe).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2021 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Rough look at the depth in welsh rugby

15 liam / hapenny/Holmes
14 LRZ / Johnny mac/owen lane/steff/giles
13 north / foxy/tompkin
12 williams/halahola/watkin/
11 adams/amos//luke morgan/conbeer
10 biggar / sheedy/evans/patchell
9 cawdor/hardy/tomow/webb/williams
8 faletau/moriarty/wainwright
7 tips/cubby/macleod/jac morgan
6 navidi/botham/ellis jenkins
5 awj/cory hill/rowlands
4 beard/ball/seb davies
3 wyn j/brown/rob evs/
2 ken/dee/elias
1 frances/carre/samson/will gruff

Thats crazy depth and quality compared to previous years decades..

Not that crazy if I am being honest Roy. Best to look at that list with some realism when it comes to making the 2023 World cup and beyond. We are really weak at 15 & 13; struggling at 4/5; of the players mentioned at 14 & 11 only two are International standard at the moment in my view. Where are the next generation of back 3 players? 
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