Tiger Machismo |
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NobbySosban
Veteran Joined: 30 June 2010 Location: Sir Berk Status: Offline Points: 6278 |
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Posted: 18 September 2018 at 10:53am |
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What is it with the machismo levels exuding from Tigers, past and present?
First interim Tigers coach Geordan Murphy says, "The game's gone too PC" (whatever that means ) after Will Spencer was sent off for smashing his shoulder into Tommy Taylor's head in a late tackle on Sunday. His solution? "We need to start picking players under five foot." Then Tigers prop Ellis Genge ridicules his teammate, former Leinster and Ireland player James Ryan, who was forced to retire last week through the effects of concussion, in a tirade of tweets about Spencer's red card. He finished with "Well if I get a concussion I probably won't remember it will I mucker". Well, quite. Now former Tigers boss, Richard Cockerill, has added his two penn'eth with, "If you don't want to get hurt, don't play the sport", saying that Spencer's hit was "probably a yellow card." Not sure what's in the water at Welford Road to make them particularly rabid, although they've always had a forward-oriented 'power' philosophy on the game - narrow-pitches and narrow minds? In fairness to Cockers, he did clarify the need to balance the risks, saying, "You want the game to be safe but you just have to go and play and accept that there are risks in playing." But it shows the challenge the game's governing bodies has with the growing time-bomb of long-term brain injuries that are beginning to store up in the modern, high-impact game. Macho posturing from ex-players, current coaches and, worse still, current internationals, whose welfare is foremost in these concerns, is, at best, unhelpful. Edited by NobbySosban - 18 September 2018 at 11:19am |
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18784 |
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Haven't seen the Spencer issue but it appears that most commentators are saying the red was very harsh. Intent must be an overriding factor when these decisions are made. In the tackle situation there are so many contributing factors such as whether a tackled player is already going to the floor when contact is made.
To be fair to the Tigers lads there are many current & former players saying that we haven't got it right yet. I don't think anyone is really advocating to move away from the core aim which is to protect players from head injuries. However a red card is the ultimate sanction available and should be used sensibly.
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reesytheexile
Veteran Joined: 11 August 2012 Location: Machynys Status: Offline Points: 17530 |
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How long before we end up with Helmets !aargh !! It seems intent is not always relevant now just because a shoulder (usually) meets a head as part of the tackle the message is 'well it made the head regardless of intent and off you go'. Its getting so hard to police and harder to tackle especially with players ducking often to try and beat a defender. I also wish refs would now stop players from all teams taking out 'Jacklers' really by side entry and lifting the legs up and over so they are not standing their ground and have to release. Counter jacklers should come from the front and be penalised constantly if nor. It would ensure more turn overs I think and a more open game-thoughts? Are we also all happy with Yellow Cards still being 10 minutes for all offences regardless of technical or physical ? Should some be 5 minutes which is still a long time in game time of roughly 50-55 minutes or so (at most)?
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aber-fan
Veteran Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18857 |
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I half agree with you. The NFL has (recently, I think) banned helmet-to-helmet contact, and not before time. You can get away with a lot more in NFL than rugby, though, as far as I can see... helmets are dangerous in themselves, and people without helmets are more careful, IMO. As for 'intent' - this is a really tricky one. Sometimes, players are falling which turns what would have been a tackle to the chest/shoulder into a head one. Sensible refs show some understanding here, and either give a penalty only or a YC... how hard the contact is can be a factor in these decisions. Problems can arise when crafty old bastards such as one ex-Ulster player, now with Blues, do an 'accidental-on-purpose' hit... I'm not thinking of recent examples here, BTW, but past observations which I'd find hard to trace. I do completely agree that when someone is legitimately attempting a jackal, there is no way opponents should be allowed to turn them upside down - it's dangerous, and as you say is often done via a side entry. In any case, I thought spear tackles had been banned - how is this different?
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50983 |
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I get that questions around interpretation and intent of (non technical infringements) cards will always prevail. It’s doutbful whether those views above have any place in mainstream media though. Foolish from those guys really.
And to be honest I do find myself thinking what it was like in ‘ my day’...the days before tip tackling was outlawed, staggered scrum engagement, no arms tackle and rucking anyone on the wrong side was perfectly legit etc...but I just watch Scott play...we are the same sort of height and build. But I was the biggest / heaviest player in my Uni team...I was a No 8 or 2nd row...now I’d be your average centre. I just can’t qualify how the human body can cope with you average player being bigger, leaner and more powerful and how that translates in to contact. |
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scarletabroad
Veteran Joined: 12 July 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 4227 |
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reduce the number of subs go back to 3 and a prop then you wont have half a team change at 60 min and have fresh 19 stone hulks battering into tired players who play a whole match, players will then have to change their condioning and go from weights to more cardio orientated training for longevity of game time, plus space will open up as the players get tired without the the almost full team replacement which will allow for more tries in open play.
Result will also potentialy be less heavy contact as players will have to lose a few stone to last 80 odd mins of play. Edited by scarletabroad - 19 September 2018 at 8:17am |
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50983 |
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Decent call that.
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18784 |
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You have a high profile supporter of your ideas - Brian Moore has been suggesting something along similar lines recently. Its an eminently sensible idea.
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 11414 |
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Good idea, but you could sort of follow football's example by having a bigger bench, with only 3 allowed on.
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 11414 |
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I guess another upside could be is that with only 3 subs allowed, players may not physically be able to play every week, only playing say 2 out of 3 every matches. This will then allow players some recovery time during the season.
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supertaf
Veteran Joined: 17 August 2004 Location: Down the Parc Status: Offline Points: 9079 |
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I watched it and all the replays and it's 100% a red card. He led with the shoulder and caught Taylor in the head. Agree that he probably didn't mean to hit him in the head but that is a stupid argument, he did. Players need to stop leading with the shoulder, easy.
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Mogwen
Veteran Joined: 07 April 2013 Location: Yma o Hyd Status: Offline Points: 4489 |
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Red card all day long. Shoulder to head, easy decision
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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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aber-fan
Veteran Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18857 |
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That would be the way to go, if the idea has mileage... rugby is so specialised that you can't have just one front rower on the bench - if the 'wrong' front row player was injured in minute 1, you'd end up with 79 min of uncontested scrums! It's a tricky one, though.
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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NobbySosban
Veteran Joined: 30 June 2010 Location: Sir Berk Status: Offline Points: 6278 |
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As reported in Times & Telegraph yesterday, Geordan Murphy has climbed down from his post-match comments, pleading his inexperience in the heat of the moment.
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Legendinmybathroom
Veteran Joined: 29 May 2017 Location: Burry Port Status: Offline Points: 3151 |
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Honest response by him, it must be difficult being thrust into a limelight at a very big club like Leicester. If remember correctly, Simon Easterby wasn’t great at dealing with all the extra responsibility that came from being head coach/ director of rugby, when he was handed the reins after retiring as a player.
It would be interesting to know whether he had received media training as part of his induction. When you look at the way Pivac conducts himself in front of the media, it’s obvious that he has developed a way of engaging with reporters etc, which puts them at ease, and makes him come across so relaxed. That can only come from experience, and sometimes you make a few gaffs along the way, it what you learn from those gaffes that matters. I’m sure he won’t be making comments like that again in a hurry. |
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scarletabroad
Veteran Joined: 12 July 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 4227 |
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Yeah a large bench would be good so long as the actually new players is reduced. Never happen mind but its worth a chat about it |
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