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Sir Keir Starmer

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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Starmer has declared a pointless,damaging war on the left in his own party,but has lacked any belligerence in his approach towards the Tories.The manner in which democracy has been shut down in the party,and debate stifled,hardly bodes well or instills trust in a man who wishes to lead the British state.Regardless of his politics(what are they?),Starmer is a poor performer,lacking substance and stature.His response to recent set-backs has been to turn to figures like Mandelsson-somebody should tell the man that New Labour is old,the world has changed..The Tories have abandoned much neo-liberal ideology,and are pumping money into former Labour seats.The media have,so far,been kind to Starmer-that will change.Without a radical alternative,persuasively presented,the Tories will,I believe,take more seats from Labour at the next GE.
 
what's your take on the snp? they have loads of good speakers , not sure about policies but if it comes to a debate they'll wipe out the labour and torys

Sturgeon,i think,is a polished media performer,but has benefitted from an easy ride.Andrew Marr took her to task the other day,and she wilted-it looks like any honey-moon period is over for her,with the Tories starting to move to protect the Union.Scotland is home to appalling poverty,terrible problems with drug deaths,and its education system is not performing well.On top of this sits the SNP,solely concerned with independence.You can blame New Labour for much of that-the decline of the Scottish left,historically a massive force,left a vacuum that the SNP has filled,and so far the desire for change or progress has been diverted to the dead-end of the independence debate.Money talks,and the Tories,with the pork barrel politics we started to see in yesterday's budget,will,I think,make in-roads north of the border.Starmer's approach towards Scottish Labour will not achieve much success,imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dicky Betts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 3:01pm
Who does Starmer play for. Is he capped, forward or back? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Dicky Betts Dicky Betts wrote:

Who does Starmer play for. Is he capped, forward or back? 

No idea,but wigged not capped,constantly moves between the two,and his colour is purple(more blue than red).Wink


Edited by Dic Penderyn - 05 March 2021 at 3:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Didn't wish to post this is coronavirus thread even though it links but Starmer really is struggling to have a strong enough voice at present. I am not feeling as though Labour hold any credible opposition at all, yet we have examples of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude within the Government. Not to mention acting unlawfully. They are not being held to account for this. 

This week's budget is now starting to cause debate, most notably the 1% pay rise to the NHS workers and feelings this has triggered. Is there an argument that people should just feel lucky to still have jobs, as the former nurse Dorries suggests, or is it a further insult to an under-funded NHS? And one that has been pushed to the brink during the coronavirus crisis with many staff worked to the point of breakdown? Not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Bringing this back to brief, yes the vaccine roll out has been a great success so far and the Government do deserve credit for this, but why are Labour so ineffective as an opposition party? 

1. Because the press is controlled to a very large extent by Tory supporters who are in turn, by and large, tax-dodging exiles

2. Because the BBC has been castrated by the appointment of Tories to the senior positions:
I can only assume that 'someone' has been out there messing up Google's usually useful search engine, since searching for 'top Tories at the BBC' or similar brings up a lot of guff... that, I think, is actually quite sinister. What I can show you is this:

"THE man named as Tony Hall's replacement as director general of the BBC was a local Conservative official in the 90s before joining the broadcaster, it has emerged.

BBC Studios boss Tim Davie stood as a councillor for The Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994.

He was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s, raising questions about his ability to hold the Tory Government to account in his new role."

"TORY donor and former Goldman Sachs banker has been appointed as the new chairman of the BBC, it was announced today.

Richard Sharp will succeed Sir David Clementi, the broadcaster has said.

He was once Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s boss at Goldman Sachs, where he worked for over 20 years and has donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Conservative Party.

Private Eye magazine had reported that Mr Sharp had donated almost half a million pounds to the Tories between 2001 and 2010.

He has donated £4,600 since then, according to the Guardian.

During the pandemic, he was an unpaid adviser to Mr Sunak on loans for businesses that have been affected by lockdowns and restrictions.

He is also listed as a board member of Centre for Policy Studies, according to the conservative think tank’s website."

(I am sorry to only be offer these links, but as I suggest, it looks as if 'someone' is gaming Google to make it difficult to find these facts - try it for yourself! It's worrying.)

3. Does Starmer carry no responsibility? Of course he does - he is very good at detailed work, and is far cleverer than Boris - but, as it said in a book I read ages ago, "bullpoo baffles brains". So long as the press and other media don't hold Boris to account, he can get away with his bullpoo... and we'll all suffer as a result. Starmer needs to be more passionate and less lawyerly in his approach.

This. The right is now choking the left. The BBC is not holding the Government to account. Hancock given an easy ride, Patel NOT appearing on media, I was disappointed that Rutnam accepted a pay off. Shame he didn't have his day in Court. Patel an BJ would have had to answer under oath. And I mean answer not spout bullpoo.

Even the Speaker now no longer holds BJ to account when he doesn't answer a question put to him.


Edited by ap sior - 05 March 2021 at 3:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Starmer has declared a pointless,damaging war on the left in his own party,but has lacked any belligerence in his approach towards the Tories.The manner in which democracy has been shut down in the party,and debate stifled,hardly bodes well or instills trust in a man who wishes to lead the British state.Regardless of his politics(what are they?),Starmer is a poor performer,lacking substance and stature.His response to recent set-backs has been to turn to figures like Mandelsson-somebody should tell the man that New Labour is old,the world has changed..The Tories have abandoned much neo-liberal ideology,and are pumping money into former Labour seats.The media have,so far,been kind to Starmer-that will change.Without a radical alternative,persuasively presented,the Tories will,I believe,take more seats from Labour at the next GE.
 
what's your take on the snp? they have loads of good speakers , not sure about policies but if it comes to a debate they'll wipe out the labour and torys

Sturgeon,i think,is a polished media performer,but has benefitted from an easy ride.Andrew Marr took her to task the other day,and she wilted-it looks like any honey-moon period is over for her,with the Tories starting to move to protect the Union.Scotland is home to appalling poverty,terrible problems with drug deaths,and its education system is not performing well.On top of this sits the SNP,solely concerned with independence.You can blame New Labour for much of that-the decline of the Scottish left,historically a massive force,left a vacuum that the SNP has filled,and so far the desire for change or progress has been diverted to the dead-end of the independence debate.Money talks,and the Tories,with the pork barrel politics we started to see in yesterday's budget,will,I think,make in-roads north of the border.Starmer's approach towards Scottish Labour will not achieve much success,imo.
Poverty can mainly be lessened by raising the minimum wage, using the fiscal power of the state to invest, and raising benefits- all of which are under Westminster control. I believe the SNP have asked for drug policy to be devolved but the Tories refuse. Although the SNP do need to accept blame for education the money for it is ultimately dependent (unless they cut other areas even more) on how much the Scottish Government is allowed to spend (which is again controlled by Westminster). Hard to see how those three things can be used as proof of SNP failings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 4:22pm
I wish there was a Labour government. Everything would be perfect in the world. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Starmer has declared a pointless,damaging war on the left in his own party,but has lacked any belligerence in his approach towards the Tories.The manner in which democracy has been shut down in the party,and debate stifled,hardly bodes well or instills trust in a man who wishes to lead the British state.Regardless of his politics(what are they?),Starmer is a poor performer,lacking substance and stature.His response to recent set-backs has been to turn to figures like Mandelsson-somebody should tell the man that New Labour is old,the world has changed..The Tories have abandoned much neo-liberal ideology,and are pumping money into former Labour seats.The media have,so far,been kind to Starmer-that will change.Without a radical alternative,persuasively presented,the Tories will,I believe,take more seats from Labour at the next GE.
 
what's your take on the snp? they have loads of good speakers , not sure about policies but if it comes to a debate they'll wipe out the labour and torys

Sturgeon,i think,is a polished media performer,but has benefitted from an easy ride.Andrew Marr took her to task the other day,and she wilted-it looks like any honey-moon period is over for her,with the Tories starting to move to protect the Union.Scotland is home to appalling poverty,terrible problems with drug deaths,and its education system is not performing well.On top of this sits the SNP,solely concerned with independence.You can blame New Labour for much of that-the decline of the Scottish left,historically a massive force,left a vacuum that the SNP has filled,and so far the desire for change or progress has been diverted to the dead-end of the independence debate.Money talks,and the Tories,with the pork barrel politics we started to see in yesterday's budget,will,I think,make in-roads north of the border.Starmer's approach towards Scottish Labour will not achieve much success,imo.
Poverty can mainly be lessened by raising the minimum wage, using the fiscal power of the state to invest, and raising benefits- all of which are under Westminster control. I believe the SNP have asked for drug policy to be devolved but the Tories refuse. Although the SNP do need to accept blame for education the money for it is ultimately dependent (unless they cut other areas even more) on how much the Scottish Government is allowed to spend (which is again controlled by Westminster). Hard to see how those three things can be used as proof of SNP failings.

Poverty may well be lessened by the means you state,but the SNP is incapable of any constructive approach with any government in Westminster:political expediency in the quest for another referendum prevents that.Meanwhile 250,000 Scottish children live in poverty.Sturgeon felt the need to apologise to the Scottish public re.the massive increase in drug deaths,and is health not devolved?The SNP's centrist approach is,in any case,facing growing criticism in Scotland-they need no critics or apologists outside their borders.Political discourse in Scotland has for too long revolved around a protracted argument about a flag,to the massive detriment of the Scottish people.


Edited by Dic Penderyn - 05 March 2021 at 4:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 6:53pm
Most Labour leaders are knighted after they betray their working class supporters. Starmer had already achieved this and the thinking must have been that his leadership would have reassured the billionaire media, and that their coverage wouldn't then be so nasty and negative because they could be confident of retaining the status-quo and their fortunes. End result -they leave him alone but if he was stupid enough to think that they would start backing policies that help most Labour voters at the expense of their rich friends then he really isn't as bright as some think he is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 10:34pm
I see that the UK and scottish govt rightly pushed up over 150,000 learning disabled people in the covid vaccine queue in England to 6th in line due to their multiple health issues and the increased risk of death according to recent scientific data. However Ive not heard the WAG's stance on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 7:40am
The Government has acted unlawfully and also Johnson has stood up and lied about this in the HoC.


So tell me, how is this acceptable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 8:54am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Government has acted unlawfully and also Johnson has stood up and lied about this in the HoC.


So tell me, how is this acceptable?

Scottish Tories are asking Sturgeon to resign for lying to Parliament.

Wonder what their stance will be on this one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 9:12am
Sturgeon is a pretty impressive operator but this Salmond enquiry may be one hurdle too far. She has made a pretty powerful enemy who is hell bent on revenge. Boris will be secretly dancing a highland jig around No 10 as this internal SNP power struggle continues to take centre stage from Independence. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 9:21am
As for Kier Starmer he is a rather grey politician and lacks the vote winning charisma which, love him or loathe him, Boris possesses by the bucket load. In no way shape or form can Boris ever be described as a safe pair of hands but he wins elections and that keeps his enemies, of which there are many, within his party onside for now. 

Politics and the pursuit of power is and always has been a dirty and corrupt world infested by individuals whose real aim is self inflation. The poor & needy of our society are far too often seen as hindrances to that pursuit of power. When they are seen as the real route to power then attitudes may change. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 9:54am
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Government has acted unlawfully and also Johnson has stood up and lied about this in the HoC.


So tell me, how is this acceptable?

Scottish Tories are asking Sturgeon to resign for lying to Parliament.

Wonder what their stance will be on this one. 

Politicians rarely resign these days:they tend to say "sorry"instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Government has acted unlawfully and also Johnson has stood up and lied about this in the HoC.


So tell me, how is this acceptable?

Scottish Tories are asking Sturgeon to resign for lying to Parliament.

Wonder what their stance will be on this one. 

Politicians rarely resign these days:they tend to say "sorry"instead.

Sarkozy also jailed for bribing a judge. It's quite bad times all round.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2021 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

As for Kier Starmer he is a rather grey politician and lacks the vote winning charisma which, love him or loathe him, Boris possesses by the bucket load. In no way shape or form can Boris ever be described as a safe pair of hands but he wins elections and that keeps his enemies, of which there are many, within his party onside for now. 

Politics and the pursuit of power is and always has been a dirty and corrupt world infested by individuals whose real aim is self inflation. The poor & needy of our society are far too often seen as hindrances to that pursuit of power. When they are seen as the real route to power then attitudes may change. 

You're right, of course, but don't you think that Boris would be in a far more difficult position by now (disastrous handling of COVID being just his latest 'triumph') if the BBC and more newspapers were on his case?

He gets an absurdly easy ride from the Tories who run these organisations.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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