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Wasp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:13pm
History tells us that English clubs will do what they think benefits them. If someone shows them a 5 yr plan that Anglo-Welsh or British league will result in more revenue per club than other options, that's what they will take. There's no sentimentality (or not very much)
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:21pm
B and i lge makes too much sense not too happen. If not cvc wouldn’t invest if we back to clubs pro rugby is dead in wales
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

B and i lge makes too much sense not too happen. If not cvc wouldn’t invest if we back to clubs pro rugby is dead in wales

Can't ever see a return to club structure in Wales - regions or nothing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 12:29pm
Moved this post to this thread.

Before I carry on with this post I can 100% state that I am in favour of a British and Irish League. That would be Shangri-La. However....

How on earth can this come about? We are part of a Union, that Union is part of the Six Nations, that committee is part of World Rugby. 

CVC is set to invest £120m into the PRO14.

Italy, who are member of the 6 Nations have two teams on the PRO14.

South Africa have 2 teams in the PRO14 and the TV revenue that entails, which are bound by contracts no doubt. They want to put more clubs in.

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a British League?
Do the Irish want it, would they ditch their european partner country, the PRO14 headquarters are in Dublin and many believe it is run by them and for them?
How can the PRO14 tear up contracts kick out the Italians and the South Africans?
What would happen to the Italian clubs, where would The Cheetahs and Kings go?
How would all the Unions agree to this?
How would the 6 Nations Committee agree to this?
How would World Rugby agree to this?

I can only imagine one scenario how it could work and that would have to be a Kerry Packer type situation where CVC and or multiple huge TV deals came about and all the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish sides would breakaway from their Unions and World Rugby and set up their own administration. Could the clubs survive on their own without Union backing? There could be a 5 Nations, but no more games in the Principality, Twickenham, Murrayfield or the Aviva. No more Heineken Cup, The World Cup, gone.

If there was a Nations Cup and World Rugby relagated Italy to the second tier that might work. But are the Southern Hemisphere going to play ball now? There seems no chance. New Zealand seem to be pulling up the drawbridge.

There are posters on here who's views I respect and they have said a British and Irish League is coming. But please explain to me how a British and Irish League is going to happen. I'd be delighted if someone can put up some credible pathway to that. Honestly. I'll be landed.
Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:28pm
My understanding of Jiffy’s article was that he was suggesting that some of the region’s players could appear in the premiership when the Pro14 is officially shut down until travel restrictions are relaxed in order to stay match fit and maybe improve the quality of the premiership on a short term.
But again that only applies if and when the WRU feel that it’s safe to resume playing rugby at club level.
If both recommence at the same time then his proposal would not be possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Moved this post to this thread.

Before I carry on with this post I can 100% state that I am in favour of a British and Irish League. That would be Shangri-La. However....

How on earth can this come about? We are part of a Union, that Union is part of the Six Nations, that committee is part of World Rugby. 

CVC is set to invest £120m into the PRO14.

Italy, who are member of the 6 Nations have two teams on the PRO14.

South Africa have 2 teams in the PRO14 and the TV revenue that entails, which are bound by contracts no doubt. They want to put more clubs in.

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a British League?
Do the Irish want it, would they ditch their european partner country, the PRO14 headquarters are in Dublin and many believe it is run by them and for them?
How can the PRO14 tear up contracts kick out the Italians and the South Africans?
What would happen to the Italian clubs, where would The Cheetahs and Kings go?
How would all the Unions agree to this?
How would the 6 Nations Committee agree to this?
How would World Rugby agree to this?

I can only imagine one scenario how it could work and that would have to be a Kerry Packer type situation where CVC and or multiple huge TV deals came about and all the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish sides would breakaway from their Unions and World Rugby and set up their own administration. Could the clubs survive on their own without Union backing? There could be a 5 Nations, but no more games in the Principality, Twickenham, Murrayfield or the Aviva. No more Heineken Cup, The World Cup, gone.

If there was a Nations Cup and World Rugby relagated Italy to the second tier that might work. But are the Southern Hemisphere going to play ball now? There seems no chance. New Zealand seem to be pulling up the drawbridge.

There are posters on here who's views I respect and they have said a British and Irish League is coming. But please explain to me how a British and Irish League is going to happen. I'd be delighted if someone can put up some credible pathway to that. Honestly. I'll be landed.
CVC want a British and Irish league. It’s all in the small print. Plus who says the unions are against it? Everything is in place they just need to seize this opportunity. Personally don’t see a prosperous future for Welsh pro rugby without it.

Edited by scarletnut - 10 May 2020 at 1:40pm
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 1:54pm
I could see the Irish being a stumbling block to a B&I League. The English clubs would hold the whip as there’s more of them and with England being by far the biggest market, that’s where the bulk of the money would be coming from. They wouldn’t be happy with Leinster dominating or the lack of transparency in what the wage bills are for the provinces. Having two different currencies in one league would make a salary cap more complicated too. 

It’s a shame the French clubs aren’t keen for the Irish and Italians to join their system. That’d sort the currency problem out for us. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:43pm
CVC want a British and Irish league. It’s all in the small print. Plus who says the unions are against it? Everything is in place they just need to seize this opportunity. Personally don’t see a prosperous future for Welsh pro rugby without it.

For a B&I league to be created the 6 Nations Committee would need to want it and agree to it. If CVC are to invest in the 6 Nations then I can see an angle there. But do Italy get to continue in the 6 Nations with only having what would become 2 semi pro teams playing domestic leauge rugby? Then there's the issue of South Africa. Do they come into the 6 Nations, to make it 7? Or do they take Italy's place. You would then need SA sides in the 'B&I League' wouldnt you?

The alternative is to let current PRO14 SA TV contracts expire, say thanks and da bo to the Kings and Cheetahs and say chow to Treviso and Zebre. Would World Rugby stand by and let that happen or have they any say in the matter? Morally it seems pretty harsh.

Personally I'm against a League that includes long distance flights. At the moment the obvious deterrant is Covid 19, but looking ahead the climate would be better off if Pro leagues were more localised. Ive backed the PRO14, and would continue to do so if that's what we're left with, because 'a' Pro league is better than nothing.

I want to see this happening, but too many false Dawns have left me sceptical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 1:43pm
With the French boycotting the champions cup next year and the logistical problems with covid now is the perfect time for radical change.

For me I think the safest option would be an Anglo Welsh league, no real border crossing involved or we may see a British league 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 1:51pm
If Bill Beaumont is serious, then its his chance to change the game, get the structure, the season, the competitions right and he will quite rightly be hailed as a saviour of rugby as we think we know it. Do nothing, and then it will became a minority sport, even more than it is, even in Wales. 

I don't take great pleasure in writing this, but I feel except for the 6 nations & World Cup it is falling behind everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

If Bill Beaumont is serious, then its his chance to change the game, get the structure, the season, the competitions right and he will quite rightly be hailed as a saviour of rugby as we think we know it. Do nothing, and then it will became a minority sport, even more than it is, even in Wales. 

I don't take great pleasure in writing this, but I feel except for the 6 nations & World Cup it is falling behind everyone.

Completely agree, I think it's now or never to bring about radical change. And as you say, we will simply fall behind, or should I say even further behind, other mainstream sports if we don't make big changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

With the French boycotting the champions cup next year and the logistical problems with covid now is the perfect time for radical change.

For me I think the safest option would be an Anglo Welsh league, no real border crossing involved or we may see a British league 



I didn't know they has opted out next season in France. Interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

I could see the Irish being a stumbling block to a B&I League.

Excellent. They can go and play Zebre and the Cheetahs every week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

With the French boycotting the champions cup next year and the logistical problems with covid now is the perfect time for radical change.

For me I think the safest option would be an Anglo Welsh league, no real border crossing involved or we may see a British league 



I didn't know they has opted out next season in France. Interesting.

According to some French newspaper they are threatening to boycott as they want 8 teams in it. If true I say leave them there and use this as an opportunity to make a really good British and Irish league that is the pinnacle of club rugby 
and doesn't need a Euro cup to elevate the season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 5:52pm
The ownership of the pro 14 after CVC's investment was said to be the three Celtic unions a bit less than 25% each and CVC the rest. The effect of this is that if CVC and one union vote for change then it happens because they have more than 50%. So the Irish do not have control over what happens.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 8:40pm
If that is correct, then that’s a very interesting development.  For far too long the Irish have run the Pro12-14 and previously the Celtic League.  Someone else having a bigger say in the way the league is run or in a change of direct is much needed.  Just look at the latest plan being mooted, with the Scottish and Welsh sides being asked to decamp to Ireland just sums up the league and it’s management.
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