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Regions should break away and form PRL style body

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scarletnut View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 February 2021 at 1:57pm
Have a read of this interview with former Sport Wales chief Huw Jones. Gives his thoughts on where pro rugby in Wales should go from here.

I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 2:11pm
It's the logical thing to do,and I hope it gets done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 2:11pm
Difficult to se any downside on that. A very good piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Have a read of this interview with former Sport Wales chief Huw Jones. Gives his thoughts on where pro rugby in Wales should go from here.


Thanks Steff - far too sensible suggestions - it will never catch onWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 5:27pm
It's all well and good talking about it but someone needs to have the guts to actually do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

It's all well and good talking about it but someone needs to have the guts to actually do it.

Spot on-and soon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

It's all well and good talking about it but someone needs to have the guts to actually do it.
Absolutely. Talk is meaningless without action
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 5:51pm
The first thing that needs to happen is for Buttress to buy the Dragons from WRU.

Obviously, prep can be done for the rest of it while that is happening, however, all four regions need to be privately owned and not holding their hands out for extra money from the WRU over and above what is rightfully theirs due to competition income and for player release.

You’d think now would be quite a good time to persuade the WRU to accept a low price for the Dragons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 4:11pm
Forgive me, as I don’t understand the consequences off all the control being sucked up by team wales vs a more localised approach.

But isn’t one of the benefits of things like central contracts and the WRU having access to those players is it helps keep those players in Wales? Thereby helping the regions?

The other thing it aids is players agents pitting regions against each other for their services. 

Say 2 regions want a player - Aaron Jones - Arron wants £100k per year and the two regions have budgeted £60k - but because he’s a good player his agent knows the regions can be drawn into a bidding process against each other.

Without an organisation like the WRU saying “the budget is £60k for a player like you Aaron. you either take it or go somewhere else but you won’t then be able to play for your country while you’re elsewhere”, the regions are left competing against each other for the same talent but find themselves paying more for it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Forgive me, as I don’t understand the consequences off all the control being sucked up by team wales vs a more localised approach.

But isn’t one of the benefits of things like central contracts and the WRU having access to those players is it helps keep those players in Wales? Thereby helping the regions?

The other thing it aids is players agents pitting regions against each other for their services. 

Say 2 regions want a player - Aaron Jones - Arron wants £100k per year and the two regions have budgeted £60k - but because he’s a good player his agent knows the regions can be drawn into a bidding process against each other.

Without an organisation like the WRU saying “the budget is £60k for a player like you Aaron. you either take it or go somewhere else but you won’t then be able to play for your country while you’re elsewhere”, the regions are left competing against each other for the same talent but find themselves paying more for it?
Central control is not a good thing when it comes to Welsh rugby. The professional arm of the game in Wales has been neglected and underfunded for years. Also it’s all well and good signing the likes of Josh Adams and Ross Moriarty but how often do they play for their clubs? The WRU don’t really “fund” us they pay for the services of all our players and they haven’t really paid enough if we are being honest. Pre Covid the IRU gave €40m to their four provinces while the WRU gave £26m to the four Welsh sides. We’d never consistently compete with that. Also central control more often than not means you can’t control your own financial/commercial destiny. For example Pro14 and European monies goes through the WRU which is wrong IMO. I think a PRL style body is the best way forward if we want a thriving domestic scene in Wales. 

Also considering who the WRU CEO is central control would very likely mean one club getting the chop or at the very least a 2+2 funding model.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Forgive me, as I don’t understand the consequences off all the control being sucked up by team wales vs a more localised approach.

Also considering who the WRU CEO is central control would very likely mean one club getting the chop or at the very least a 2+2 funding model.

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with either of those prospects?

3 pro-teams seems like Scarlets wouldn’t be the one to chop?
2+2 seems like we might be one of the better funded two?

I don’t really have a dog in this fight other than I’ve been a scarlets fan since seeing my first game in 2003 so just curious about what the problems are that becoming more independent would solve. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 5:33pm

Is there a big enough paying base and lucrative enough tv deals etc to fund 4 regions

 
If the regions break away from the wru and say we are going to run our own affairs (which I'm all for) , the wru can  say fair enough but we can then select anyone we  like regardless of where they are playing
 
The regions would then have to compete against English and French clubs for the same players with no penalty for not playing in wales ?
 
Unless we get a b&I league I can't see it being viable tbh
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

 
Unless we get a b&I league I can't see it being viable tbh
 

I kind of agree. It’s obvious that the Welsh teams miss out the most from there not being a B&I league - and - therefore have the most to gain.

As someone who made the trip to SA and saw us play Southern Kings (but didn’t make it to Bloemfontein) - SA is a beautiful country but I’m much more likely to go watch us play Bristol or Bath again than take the trip to see us play the Stormers.

Would the 4 regions becoming independent make a B&I league any more likely?


Edited by dyniol53 - 15 February 2021 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

 
Unless we get a b&I league I can't see it being viable tbh
 

I kind of agree. It’s obvious that the Welsh teams miss out the most from there not being a B&I league - and - therefore have the most to gain.

As someone who made the trip to SA and saw us play Southern Kings (but didn’t make it to Bloemfontein) - SA is a beautiful country but I’m much more likely to go watch us play Bristol or Bath again than take the trip to see us play the Stormers.

Would the 4 regions becoming independent make a B&I league any more likely?
It's certainly worth a try because at the moment we are been given the oliver twist treatment .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 6:12pm
Central control by people without big business experience who starve their best commercial assets......

What could possibly be the problem?Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2021 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Forgive me, as I don’t understand the consequences off all the control being sucked up by team wales vs a more localised approach.

Also considering who the WRU CEO is central control would very likely mean one club getting the chop or at the very least a 2+2 funding model.

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with either of those prospects?

3 pro-teams seems like Scarlets wouldn’t be the one to chop?
2+2 seems like we might be one of the better funded two?

I don’t really have a dog in this fight other than I’ve been a scarlets fan since seeing my first game in 2003 so just curious about what the problems are that becoming more independent would solve. 

Optimum for player development to feed the Test team is 4 pro teams, or a pool of ~200 professional players + academies supplying age grade squads.

Fewer teams = less choice & depth in squad, & fewer player contract opportunities, so WRU would have to allow more to play elsewhere (England, France)
More teams = unsustainable, with budgets (&, to an extent, players) too thinly spread

Key to this is to get Dragons back into private ownership before their Chair loses interest - Dai Buttress wants to engineer this, but at the right price for him, & I don't think he's motivated or empowered to rush this decision in the current global situation. But he & Simon Muderack could combine well to drive things forward, while Cardiff & Ospreys will come into line if there's strong leadership from the other two.

The solution works well for everyone, but WRU have regressed massively in their professionalism & ambition in recent months, and now just want to retain control, pushing all the loan risk onto the 'regions'. A few of the WRU Board need to shake things up, but doubtful they'll get the support from enough amateur directors to make it happen, sadly. Ermm


Edited by NobbySosban - 15 February 2021 at 6:45pm
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