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haydn_davies View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Recruitment
    Posted: 01 April 2015 at 7:19am
Recruitment

So far, we've announced DTH Van Der Merwe, Aled Thomas, Tom Price and Will Taylor as signings for next season. Contrast this with the Ospreys announcing Paul James, Gareth Delve, Brendon Leonard and Dan Lydiate (OK, has arrived this season but has hardly featured as he was cup tied in RCC).

While one signs players with a potential for being very good, the other has signed players who have played club and international rugby at the highest level and have shown that they can hold their own at that level.

What puzzles me is that both the Scarlets and Ospreys have a basic income stream which are very similar and operate within the same constraints as each other where squad wage caps are identical. Is it a question that one side prioritises the 'here and now' and the other thinks of the medium to long term impact of their squads?
You could say that one seems - on the surface anyway, happy enough to replace internationally proven players and proven Pro12 level players with 'project' players that may become Pro12-level players. While the other strengthens their squad by releasing players that are deemed not god enough for Pro12 level and replacing them with proven players at the highest level.

The strength in depth of the two sides and their relative areas of strength could be severely affected this summer.

On the face of it it seems that one side wants to push on and have a high quality squad, with great strength in depth go to cover already proven quality players, while the other is happy to take punts on players who might make it, to replace players who have proven they can play at the level required.

As a Scarlets fan, I'm particularly concerned about our level of recruitment compared to the Ospreys, which is who we need to match as they are the premier Welsh region - regularly competing at the top of the Pro12 league.

If we're not careful we could be left behind by them, way behind.
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 7:47am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Recruitment

So far, we've announced DTH Van Der Merwe, Aled Thomas, Tom Price and Will Taylor as signings for next season. Contrast this with the Ospreys announcing Paul James, Gareth Delve, Brendon Leonard and Dan Lydiate (OK, has arrived this season but has hardly featured as he was cup tied in RCC).

While one signs players with a potential for being very good, the other has signed players who have played club and international rugby at the highest level and have shown that they can hold their own at that level.

What puzzles me is that both the Scarlets and Ospreys have a basic income stream which are very similar and operate within the same constraints as each other where squad wage caps are identical. Is it a question that one side prioritises the 'here and now' and the other thinks of the medium to long term impact of their squads?
You could say that one seems - on the surface anyway, happy enough to replace internationally proven players and proven Pro12 level players with 'project' players that may become Pro12-level players. While the other strengthens their squad by releasing players that are deemed not god enough for Pro12 level and replacing them with proven players at the highest level.

The strength in depth of the two sides and their relative areas of strength could be severely affected this summer.

On the face of it it seems that one side wants to push on and have a high quality squad, with great strength in depth go to cover already proven quality players, while the other is happy to take punts on players who might make it, to replace players who have proven they can play at the level required.

As a Scarlets fan, I'm particularly concerned about our level of recruitment compared to the Ospreys, which is who we need to match as they are the premier Welsh region - regularly competing at the top of the Pro12 league.

If we're not careful we could be left behind by them, way behind.

I posted a few seasons ago that I was told that the board see the scarlets as a business that happens to have a rugby team attached to it,it's obvious from the calibre of signings which board has ambitions to do well.for the last 11 years we have signed on the whole poor coaches and poor players with the knowledge that they have a very loyal fanbase,as I've said on a number of occasions we used to be 14 season ticket holders this year it was down to 3 next year it will be zero,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:41am
Budget = Income - Expenditure
 
If we don't have it, we can't spend it. We are still operating at a loss, whilst the Ospreys made a surplus last year. Therefore, they are in a better position to pick up players on these inflated salaries with better experience, whilst we need to shop around for a different calibre of player - young, up and coming, affordable.
 
I don't know what people expect us to do to be honest. I'm sure we've learned from our mistakes and days over overspending? They were unsustainable.
 
It may look as if we're shopping in the bargain bins, but we're being pretty smart about it. Parkes isn't a huge name, he's been quality so far. Earle, Ball, Snyman, Rawlins have all come in and they aren't world beaters but they're staples of our team. Just because they aren't "names" doesn't make them any less functional.
 
I honestly don't care who the Ospreys sign. As long as our house is in order and we've got people who want to fight for the Scarlets cause - and are capable of playing like we did against the Ospreys at home, Toulon away and Leinster a few weeks back we'll be fine.
 
Oh, and yes we still need an 8.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:44am
Tbh delve seems past it, James, a good prop but not a world beater and Leonard is a hit and miss player. They're big names on paper, but I'm not too sure if they're going to be the big signings we think they're going to be. Big money spent , they will expect a big return and honestly, I don't think they will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:47am
There is a thought amongst many however, that whilst we may we weaker in terms of squad depth, in terms of quality we will be better off next season than this.
 
If this were not a WC season, I may just agree with that. Taylor could be a shrewd signing, Rawlins will kick on further, Cubby will be even better, Shings will hopefully grow into the role and DTH will provide some much needed cutting edge.
 
However, we still look weak at LH, the troubled situation at lock is well documented, we have no servicable Pro 12 standard 8, and wing is still a problem.
 
Depending on how the fixtures fall during the WC, the start of next season could be hard.
 
In terms of measuring ourselves against our competitors, the O's seems streets ahead of us at the moment. We scrabble around for 6th, they contest a home semi. We recruit project players, they bring in quality signings who will make a significant impact, they look to be make solid financial progress, we move forward slower.
 
If we don't make the Champions Cup, season tickets fall over the summer and we have a bad start to the season, and Wales havea good WC, we could find ourselves playing to smaller crowds than Ponty by Xmas.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:49am
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:


Budget = Income - Expenditure
 
If we don't have it, we can't spend it. We are still operating at a loss, whilst the Ospreys made a surplus last year. Therefore, they are in a better position to pick up players on these inflated salaries with better experience, whilst we need to shop around for a different calibre of player - young, up and coming, affordable.
 
I don't know what people expect us to do to be honest. I'm sure we've learned from our mistakes and days over overspending? They were unsustainable.
 
It may look as if we're shopping in the bargain bins, but we're being pretty smart about it. Parkes isn't a huge name, he's been quality so far. Earle, Ball, Snyman, Rawlins have all come in and they aren't world beaters but they're staples of our team. Just because they aren't "names" doesn't make them any less functional.
 
I honestly don't care who the Ospreys sign. As long as our house is in order and we've got people who want to fight for the Scarlets cause - and are capable of playing like we did against the Ospreys at home, Toulon away and Leinster a few weeks back we'll be fine.
 
Oh, and yes we still need an 8.

what are the ospreys doing that we aren't?it's not the crowds is it,perhaps we should follow what they do because season in season out they still have something to play for after xmas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarlet_rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:51am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:


Budget = Income - Expenditure
 
If we don't have it, we can't spend it. We are still operating at a loss, whilst the Ospreys made a surplus last year. Therefore, they are in a better position to pick up players on these inflated salaries with better experience, whilst we need to shop around for a different calibre of player - young, up and coming, affordable.
 
I don't know what people expect us to do to be honest. I'm sure we've learned from our mistakes and days over overspending? They were unsustainable.
 
It may look as if we're shopping in the bargain bins, but we're being pretty smart about it. Parkes isn't a huge name, he's been quality so far. Earle, Ball, Snyman, Rawlins have all come in and they aren't world beaters but they're staples of our team. Just because they aren't "names" doesn't make them any less functional.
 
I honestly don't care who the Ospreys sign. As long as our house is in order and we've got people who want to fight for the Scarlets cause - and are capable of playing like we did against the Ospreys at home, Toulon away and Leinster a few weeks back we'll be fine.
 
Oh, and yes we still need an 8.

what are the ospreys doing that we aren't?it's not the crowds is it,perhaps we should follow what they do because season in season out they still have something to play for after xmas.

Come on Ladram, we have 6th and 7th to play for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonnyLewis420 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:52am
I'd be pretty disappointed with James and Delve tbh. Both are a good Couple of years past it. Leonard will be a good signing for them but so is DTH for us. We'll see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:55am
Originally posted by JonnyLewis420 JonnyLewis420 wrote:

I'd be pretty disappointed with James and Delve tbh. Both are a good Couple of years past it. Leonard will be a good signing for them but so is DTH for us. We'll see.
Oh come on. Paul James is a current Welsh international LH who can play TH at a push, and has been superb for Bath all season.
 
And I'd take Delve over Allen any day of the week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mundoscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 8:57am
there are still signings to come,also the release of academy doesnt mean they wont be in the scarlet region,just means they may well get more game time for,drovers,quins etc which hopefully can improve them.stevo coming back will improve us,the players the Os have brought in dont inspire me in the slightest.even lydiate is a 1 trick chop pony.i think lewis and arron are by far better all round 6s than him

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:03am
If people think the players the Ospreys have bought in aren't that special and we have better, keep taking the happy pills!!

Experienced - check
Played at the top level - check
Proven at the top level - check
Still able to cut it with the best - check
Shown leadership - check

Some need to put their other eye in!!
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:05am
Not saying they're not better, only not as good as everyone is saying. Past it check, over rated check, over priced check, better than what we have check
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Not saying they're not better, only not as good as everyone is saying. Past it check, over rated check, over priced check, better than what we have check

This is a forum where people express their opinions, hey if everyone thought the same there would be nothing to talk about!!

But seriously - past it?

I'd be delighted to sign any of the 4.

Would show intent and would considerably strengthen our squads depth and quality.
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Mundoscarlet Mundoscarlet wrote:

there are still signings to come,also the release of academy doesnt mean they wont be in the scarlet region,just means they may well get more game time for,drovers,quins etc which hopefully can improve them.stevo coming back will improve us,the players the Os have brought in dont inspire me in the slightest.even lydiate is a 1 trick chop pony.i think lewis and arron are by far better all round 6s than him



I love your optimism but lydiate is a grand slam winning, player of the 6 nations winning test match lion with 50 plus wales caps.

Aaron and lewis are not in the same class as him let alone better all round players.

James is a stand out prop in the Aviva (see what bath fans think about him)

leonard is a class act who impresses every time I see him

Not sure on Delve but his CV is miles ahead of the likes of allen and pitman


Any of those 4 are good buys to get all 4 seems great business for a welsh region in these times
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:25am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Not saying they're not better, only not as good as everyone is saying. Past it check, over rated check, over priced check, better than what we have check

This is a forum where people express their opinions, hey if everyone thought the same there would be nothing to talk about!!

But seriously - past it?

I'd be delighted to sign any of the 4.

Would show intent and would considerably strengthen our squads depth and quality.


Totally agree. But....

I'd choose rob over james any day
I'd choose gareth(after his ban) over Leonard any day
I'd choose delve over our 8's but wouldn't pey the silly money they have
Lydiate is a top 6 but a one horse pony, and won't be available till after the WC.

On the whole they have recruited well but not as well as first feared.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2015 at 9:27am
Originally posted by scarlet_rob scarlet_rob wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:


Budget = Income - Expenditure
 
If we don't have it, we can't spend it. We are still operating at a loss, whilst the Ospreys made a surplus last year. Therefore, they are in a better position to pick up players on these inflated salaries with better experience, whilst we need to shop around for a different calibre of player - young, up and coming, affordable.
 
I don't know what people expect us to do to be honest. I'm sure we've learned from our mistakes and days over overspending? They were unsustainable.
 
It may look as if we're shopping in the bargain bins, but we're being pretty smart about it. Parkes isn't a huge name, he's been quality so far. Earle, Ball, Snyman, Rawlins have all come in and they aren't world beaters but they're staples of our team. Just because they aren't "names" doesn't make them any less functional.
 
I honestly don't care who the Ospreys sign. As long as our house is in order and we've got people who want to fight for the Scarlets cause - and are capable of playing like we did against the Ospreys at home, Toulon away and Leinster a few weeks back we'll be fine.
 
Oh, and yes we still need an 8.

what are the ospreys doing that we aren't?it's not the crowds is it,perhaps we should follow what they do because season in season out they still have something to play for after xmas.


Come on Ladram, we have 6th and 7th to play for.
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