house of lords reject welfare bill

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/11/lords-welfare-bill-defeat-for-government?newsfeed=true

roy munster wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/11/lords-welfare-bill-defeat-for-government?newsfeed=true some stories just dont quite fit the general stereotype   all those lords and alleged toffs have voted down the tories welfare bill reforms, which looked to hit the seriously ill sick people with tougher means testing. It apears there was a bigger majority of labour peers against it than the other parties. which partly explains this result.   Perhaps this is one example, where labour can as effective in opposition as in power. In power they found it hard to differentiate between who deserves benefits and who doesnt. In opposition those decisions are made by the government, so labour then get to choose their battles. Id say they chose this battle well

Once a monkey wrote: Did the bill look to hit seriously ill people, or instead to streamline the system and remove those people who receive benefits and don't perhaps deserve to be classed as disabled etc, ironically put in that position by a Labour government?

Lot of opponents claiming much of the welfare freebees being given are for rent, which is all because successive governments have failed to build anywhere near enough social housing. So they feel the bill needs to be more nuanced with more checks and balanced for the variety of different situations of claimants

roy munster wrote: Lot of opponents claiming much of the welfare freebees being given are for rent, which is all because successive governments have failed to build anywhere near enough social housing. So they feel the bill needs to be more nuanced with more checks and balanced for the variety of different situations of claimants

This is a very good point. The Tories under Thatcher were opposed to council housing on principle. They not only forced councils to sell off council houses - they also prevented them from using the proceeds to build new council houses. As a result, there is nowhere near enough low cost housing in this country for ANYONE (including claimants).
The other stupidity is that rents are not controlled in the private sector (as they are in France), so once claimants are put into private housing (as they have to be due to the lack of social housing) the private landlords are laughing all the way to the bank.

somethings got to give. clearly £26000 tax free is a lot of money. its the equivalent to earning £35000....lets assume £5500 is on rent. thats still £20,500 left over. If you also add in the fact theese people dont pay contributions or taxes then they also get free nhs and free prescriptions. I would though question this £26000 quoted. how does one get that much? are we talking single parents mainly? whats the breakdown of that figure? say they get sickness for say £90 then free rent say £110, then child benefit , how much is that? say £20 a child (total guess) thats another £100...then is all other household bills paid? Ive read figures of £45000 so whats the breakdown?

ladram wrote: roy munster wrote: somethings got to give. clearly £26000 tax free is a lot of money. its the equivalent to earning £35000....lets assume £5500 is on rent. thats still £20,500 left over. If you also add in the fact theese people dont pay contributions or taxes then they also get free nhs and free prescriptions. I would though question this £26000 quoted. how does one get that much? are we talking single parents mainly? whats the breakdown of that figure? say they get sickness for say £90 then free rent say £110, then child benefit , how much is that? say £20 a child (total guess) thats another £100...then is all other household bills paid? Ive read figures of £45000 so whats the breakdown? and when they get too old to look after themselves they won't have their house taken off them to pay for it.

aye true. So the moral of the tale is? dont bother working....dont save....play the system and book your holidays...how did it come to this?

ladram wrote: roy munster wrote: somethings got to give. clearly £26000 tax free is a lot of money. its the equivalent to earning £35000....lets assume £5500 is on rent. thats still £20,500 left over. If you also add in the fact theese people dont pay contributions or taxes then they also get free nhs and free prescriptions. I would though question this £26000 quoted. how does one get that much? are we talking single parents mainly? whats the breakdown of that figure? say they get sickness for say £90 then free rent say £110, then child benefit , how much is that? say £20 a child (total guess) thats another £100...then is all other household bills paid? Ive read figures of £45000 so whats the breakdown? and when they get too old to look after themselves they won't have their house taken off them to pay for it.

This is, of course, a disgrace - up to now, politicians have failed to find a solution (or to have the guts to bring in a fairer system).