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Gatland has to carry the can

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Ow! View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:10pm
Now I've defended Gatland on this forum a fair bit over the years but I'm starting to think his coaching methods are severely limiting Wales. And his running of the Welsh camp is coming across as a dictatorship.
 
We've now played the same way for at least four years and to say we're predictable in attack is an understatement. There seems to be no licence whatsoever for the players to deviate from the oh-so-obvious game plan. We always attack in the same direction from the rucks and eventually someone  gets isolated and we turn the ball over. Now that sounds awfully simplistic but I don't think it's far off the mark; to say it became irritating against the French was an understatement. Even the Spanish people on the table next to me in Dublin could see what was going on.
 
A few observations that have to be addressed if we're to even get out of the group in the World Cup. And, at this point, I can't see us reaching the quarter-finals because the south sea islanders will eat up our attack and constantly turn us over at the breakdown.
 
* The centre partnership is all wrong; they're far too similar. Jamie Roberts is being used purely as a basher and, if we're honest, he made no line breaks all tournament. Is he a centre or is he purely playing according to orders? Neither of the centres offers any creativity and any decent international defence will swallow them up all day long. It's happened all tournament.
* Why do we commit so few players to rucks? I have absolutely no idea why the likes of Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones and the props are permanently cluttering up our backline. Surely they should be smashing into rucks and ensuring we retain the ball? The breakdown against France was embarrassing.
* Mike Phillips needs to be dropped to the bench. He's a great athlete but he's technically very poor far too often. Peel, Richie Rees and even someone like Rhys Webb should get some gametime for Wales so we can pick up the tempo and play a bit more instinctively. So to hell with our rigid gameplan that isn't bloody working and hasn't worked for years.
* Gatland obviously has his favourites and it's well overdue their places in the team had some serious scrutiny. I'd like to see the Western Mail looking at other positions instead of purely concentrating on the number ten shirt. Is Hook an international standard ten? I'm afraid the jury's still out. And we shouldn't have to pick him at ten just because he wants to play there.
 
Were there any positives from the Six Nations? Very few, I'm afraid, although I do agree with Eddie Butler that Wales aren't an awful side. What is obvious, even to the layperson, is that our team is far too overcoached and doesn't play with the same passion and intensity of other nations - and it really saddens me to say that.
The only positives I can think of were the form of Warburton and Lydiate and the fact Mitchell seems to be able to just about cut it as Adam Jones' understudy.
 
There's absolutely no point in getting rid of Gatland now but, if we fail to get out of the group in the World Cup because none of the above has been addressed, then I'm afraid he'll have to go. It's among the most annoying couple of years I can remember with Wales because, while our players aren't world class, they're also not that bad and we should be doing far better. And the coaches have to carry the can for this.
 
 
He wakes up and gives me sh*t, but here's the best part! She's with this golf pro, but she's married to some other guy! Some hotshot banker! And he's the one they pinned it on!







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JonWal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonWal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:15pm
Completely agree with that.
 
Our defence is excellent, its just our attack which seems clueless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Ow! Ow! wrote:

Now I've defended Gatland on this forum a fair bit over the years but I'm starting to think his coaching methods are severely limiting Wales. And his running of the Welsh camp is coming across as a dictatorship.
 
We've now played the same way for at least four years and to say we're predictable in attack is an understatement. There seems to be no licence whatsoever for the players to deviate from the oh-so-obvious game plan. We always attack in the same direction from the rucks and eventually someone  gets isolated and we turn the ball over. Now that sounds awfully simplistic but I don't think it's far off the mark; to say it became irritating against the French was an understatement. Even the Spanish people on the table next to me in Dublin could see what was going on.
 
A few observations that have to be addressed if we're to even get out of the group in the World Cup. And, at this point, I can't see us reaching the quarter-finals because the south sea islanders will eat up our attack and constantly turn us over at the breakdown.
 
* The centre partnership is all wrong; they're far too similar. Jamie Roberts is being used purely as a basher and, if we're honest, he made no line breaks all tournament. Is he a centre or is he purely playing according to orders? Neither of the centres offers any creativity and any decent international defence will swallow them up all day long. It's happened all tournament.
* Why do we commit so few players to rucks? I have absolutely no idea why the likes of Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones and the props are permanently cluttering up our backline. Surely they should be smashing into rucks and ensuring we retain the ball? The breakdown against France was embarrassing.
* Mike Phillips needs to be dropped to the bench. He's a great athlete but he's technically very poor far too often. Peel, Richie Rees and even someone like Rhys Webb should get some gametime for Wales so we can pick up the tempo and play a bit more instinctively. So to hell with our rigid gameplan that isn't bloody working and hasn't worked for years.
* Gatland obviously has his favourites and it's well overdue their places in the team had some serious scrutiny. I'd like to see the Western Mail looking at other positions instead of purely concentrating on the number ten shirt. Is Hook an international standard ten? I'm afraid the jury's still out. And we shouldn't have to pick him at ten just because he wants to play there.
 
Were there any positives from the Six Nations? Very few, I'm afraid, although I do agree with Eddie Butler that Wales aren't an awful side. What is obvious, even to the layperson, is that our team is far too overcoached and doesn't play with the same passion and intensity of other nations - and it really saddens me to say that.
The only positives I can think of were the form of Warburton and Lydiate and the fact Mitchell seems to be able to just about cut it as Adam Jones' understudy.
 
There's absolutely no point in getting rid of Gatland now but, if we fail to get out of the group in the World Cup because none of the above has been addressed, then I'm afraid he'll have to go. It's among the most annoying couple of years I can remember with Wales because, while our players aren't world class, they're also not that bad and we should be doing far better. And the coaches have to carry the can for this.
 
 


Just showing off that is mun.

I have had my say on Gatland over in the Six Nations section (you are thinking along the same lines as me Ow), i have been banging the drum for 18 months that we need rid of the guy.
You lied to me Edward. You lied to me. There is a Swansea... and other places.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ow! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:19pm
Ah no showing off, Evans. I was there on a stag do.
My point is that it must be obvious if even the Spanish can see how predictable we are through the smoke of their chorizo and espresso meal deal.


Edited by Ow! - 21 March 2011 at 4:21pm
He wakes up and gives me sh*t, but here's the best part! She's with this golf pro, but she's married to some other guy! Some hotshot banker! And he's the one they pinned it on!







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:22pm
Stephen Jones at 10, Peel at 9 with Hook and Roberts in the centre. While this maybe regressing a bit, it's by far the best option available to Wales.

The bath water and the baby should be thrown out after what will be a predictably shit world cup.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:25pm
We won't change our style of play before the World Cup, there isn't enough time now! Shocked We'll get smashed by the Saffa's, Samoa will steam roll us like they always do in the World Cup group stages, and Fiji will do what they did to us 4 years ago!
 
I seriously can't see us getting out of our group, Gats and co will be gone by the end of the year, you watch! Shocked
 
All this World Cup is going to say to us, is that Gareth Jenkins didn't do a bad job with limited resources after all! Shocked we all knew that already anyway! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 4:30pm
We must not forget the all Gatland has been given as an objective is to reach the QF of the RWC.
 
He can keep the paychecks coming if he does, why does he need to put a team out to try and beat Aus/NZ/SA...all he has to do is beat the Italy's and Scotland's of this world.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2011 at 7:28pm
On the issue of the centres, its impossible to judge them as a pair in attack, because they are never used together.   

If you look at almost every attack, we start from first phase with a forward taking the ball into contact as quickly as possible, then its recycled to the scrum half who either passes to another forward, or to the 10 who passes to a forward.  JR is sometimes used as a ball carrier, but the goal always seems to be to create another phase.  I can count on one hand, the number of times the centres were used together throughout the whole 6N.


Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 21 March 2011 at 7:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2011 at 2:39am
Good post rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2011 at 10:48am
Well thank you will. Smile

As the seasons unfold, we start to get a perspective on the past 4 or 5 years.  There is no doubt in my mind that Gareth Jenkins handed over a fully fit and healthy set of players to Gatland - players who were all fired up and ready for action in the 2008 6N.  Not bad after only been given an 18 month run at the job, and inheriting a run down group of players from 2006.   What if Jenkins had been allowed to take 'HIS' team on into 2008?

I believe Gatland DID take them on to another level in 2008, using the style that Jenkins had developed.  But I now think that Gatland played that open style of runing rugby because thats what the players knew, and he didn't have time to change to his style before the start of the 2008 6N.  In my humble opinion, what happened after the 2008 6N, is that Gatland started moving away from the 2007/08 style, and introduced a new method, which is what we see now.  Endless phases across field, utilising the blind side as if its going out of fashion, and then coming back across field again; waiting for a gap to open.  Its all very controlled, but is it working.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2011 at 10:55am
It doesnt matter what your centre partnership is if Hook is the 10, for all his qualities he stiffles the midfield with rugby's version of the "Truman Show".
 
Look at 9 and 10 first they are the key players in this problem of an ineffective backline......
 
 
Good Post though Ow!!
 
 
 
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

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