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16 team Premiership from 2016?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 16 team Premiership from 2016?
    Posted: 02 March 2015 at 1:06pm
THE PRINCIPALITY Premiership clubs have asked the Welsh Rugby Union to increase the size of the top flight, writes Chris Kirwan.
The governing body are holding a meeting next week where they will discuss the request to add at least another two clubs and possibly four to the 12-strong league.

The changes will not take place for next season with the existing clubs set to remain in the 2015/16 Premiership because Bargoed, who do not have the criteria for promotion, are running away with the Swalec Championship.

The Premiership was cut from 14 to 12 in 2012 and that decision prompted Pontypool's failed High Court fight against the WRU. Pooler, Swansea and north Walians RGC 1404 are the current Championship clubs with the required A Licence for the top flight.

WRU chairman Gareth Davies wrote in an open letter last weekend that a working party, chaired by former Llanelli chief Anthony Buchanan, is reviewing the domestic league structure.

And the Premiership clubs have made it clear that more fixtures are needed and that the schedule needs to be sorted to avoid weeks of kicking their heels on the sidelines.

The eight that did not qualify for this year's British and Irish Cup were faced with gaping holes in their calendar and a proposal has been made for them to have their own competition next season to fill the void.


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The cross-border tournament is itself a touch shambolic with a heavy regional presence in squads at the expense of club players. That is likely to be exacerbated by the absence of the LV= Cup next season.

Meanwhile, Newport and Dragons chief executive Stuart Davies plans to meet with Gwent's Premiership contingent to discuss how they ensure that the pathway to regional rugby is married with club success.

The former Wales back row forward, who took over from Gareth Davies in January, said: "When I was playing I had a huge respect for Gwent rugby and still have the scars to prove it from Wednesday night visits to Tredegar, Newbridge, Cross Keys, Ebbw Vale where every side had a gnarled tighthead and a tough openside.

"There's no doubt the talent is out there and it's about harnessing that and making sure the systems are in place to make sure they come through.

"I want the Premiership sides feeding the regional side. I want that relationship to be harmonious and fair where the Premiership clubs are competitive, successful in their own right while also being a conduit for players to come through to the region."

Ebbw Vale, Cross Keys and Bedwas are currently in the mix for the playoffs but the Black and Ambers are bottom of the pile and thankful that Bargoed are having such a fine season.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2015 at 1:41pm
Doesn't this dilute the talent pool even further, and move away from the Regional A set-up which would better bridge the gap between Regional rugby and the Premiership?
 
I get the point about fixture holes, but surely there are ways around that.
 
Huge respect for anyone playing this standard of rugby, but surely this just means a lot more plumbers, lawyers, painters, teachers playing rugby at this level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2015 at 5:04pm
In a structure where part of the purpose of any level seems to be to serve the needs of the level above, the four regions would/should have an input into the structure of the premiereship. And the representation should be equally spread across the four regions. That means 12 or 16 clubs. And regulated promotion/relegation. I agree there are ways around the fixture holes- regional B sides for a start so perhaps 12 sidesis enough.

Good luck Anthony- chairing that is a more difficult job than facing the pooler front row in their pomp.

It's good to see that the Drags are talking to their region. If a bit delayed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2015 at 5:10pm

This would be a disaster not enough quality players for 8 teams in my view two teams per region ,with A fixtures to be played to fill the gaps in the season .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gofer88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2015 at 6:10pm
I think the prem can expand to 16 teams if there is another layer above it. In the absence of the LV cup the obvious answer would be the Aviva A league combined with B & I cup games for regional "A" sides, or as a minimum regional "A" games between the 4 welsh regions.

3 fixtures around mid - late September before B & I rounds 1 -3 and a further 3 post November internationals/ pre 6 nations that fits around the rest of the B & I schedule. Therefore regional squad players and developing prem/ academy players get crucial regular game time and we don't see the sorry mess that has been depleted teams in the prem coping with the knock on effect from international call ups, through to the LV cup.

Granted the premiership would get slightly weaker overall but the holes in the fixture list are costing clubs too much money as fans are not in the habit of attending games at 2.30 on a Saturday every week, therefore crowds are dwindling and subsequently the clubs have less money to operate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 11:35am
Article from the fail this morning, potentially looking at Merthyr / Swansea / RGC being moved back up to a 16 team Premiership
Quote Ambitious Merthyr could be fast-tracked to the Welsh Premiership next season with proposals on the table to expand the top tier of our domestic game to 16 clubs.

Last week we revealed multi-millionaire Sir Stan Thomas’ plans to transform the sleeping giant of Merthyr into a major force in Welsh club rugby, helping finance a £1.25m ground redevelopment plan that would see the construction of a new stand, floodlights, changing room and the installation of an artificial pitch.

He has also undertaken a player recruitment drive, which has seen him target a number of Welsh internationals, as he sets his sights on securing Premiership status for the Championship side.

His star-studded shopping list includes former Lions hooker Matthew Rees, ex-Wales internationals Ian Gough, Andy Powell and Richie Rees plus Tongans Tau Filise and Maama Molitika.

The Merthyr rugby revolution is starting to take shape after Ebbw Vale announced scrum-half Rhys Downes will join the Ironmen on a ‘lucrative’ three-year contract with Pontypridd second-row Craig Locke and Sardis Road prop James Howe expected to follow in the next few weeks.

And the trio could have an earlier than expected showdown with their former clubs with discussions on the table to return to a 16-club Welsh Premiership next season as the row over fielding regional A teams in the British & Irish Cup rumbles on.

At present, one club from each region takes part in the cross-border British and Irish Cup competition following a qualifying play-off, with Pontypridd, Cross Keys, Carmarthen Quins and Aberavon the sides on board this season.

But the four regions - Cardiff Blues, Ospreys, Scarlets and Dragons - have decided that from next season regional A sides will compete in the 20-team event.

This has provoked an angry reaction from Premiership champions Pontypridd, who have vowed to fight against the proposal which would need to be approved by the board of the WRU.

Fielding regional A teams would replicate the situation in Ireland, where Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht put out their second string sides.

The competition also features the 12 English Championship clubs, with Worcester beating Doncaster in this season’s final in March.

The news has gone down badly at Sardis Road, with Ponty having enjoyed significant success in the B&I Cup and provided their fans with some memorable trips.

They have twice reached the semi-finals, in 2011 and 2014, while Cross Keys were beaten finalists in 2012.

Should the regional plans get WRU backing, to help offset a gap in the fixture schedule, proposals are on the table to revert back to a 16-club Premiership.

With Swansea, Merthyr and RGC 1404 finishing in the top-four they would be set to line up alongside the likes of Newport, Cardiff, Pontypridd and Llanelli next season though the fourth club to make the step up is a moot point.

Bargoed coasted to the Championship crown last season though they were denied a place in the Premiership because of ground criteria.

Though the club has vowed to get ground criteria in place – with one solution being possibly using the Dragons’ Ystrad Mynach training base as a venue for home games – another possibility would be once-giants of Welsh rugby Pontypool joining the Premiership given they finished in fifth spot in the Championship last season.

Wales coach Warren Gatland has joined in the discussions on the way ahead for the Premiership and British & Irish Cup competitions with meetings expected to take place in the next couple of weeks.

Another proposal up for discussion would be including an All Star Welsh Premiership XV in the British & Irish Cup, though whether they would play alongside the four regional A teams is as yet unclear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 12:44pm
Unusually perceptive article on Merthyr RFC by Andy Bowell in today's W. Mule - nah.. must have been a ghost writer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Westwalian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 2:38pm
Surely a 16 league team would further dilute the standard of rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Westwalian Westwalian wrote:

Surely a 16 league team would further dilute the standard of rugby

  Agree totally,this could be a disaster for the development of the younger players in the Premiership 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Westwalian Westwalian wrote:

Surely a 16 league team would further dilute the standard of rugby

  Agree totally,this could be a disaster for the development of the younger players in the Premiership 
It might be a case that the A teams are still going ahead but the Premiership would become a 16 team amateur level league below. Wouldn't be treated as such a development pathway then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 4:45pm
Why should Merthyr be fast tracked up? Because they plan to spend a lot of money?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scarletsrules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 5:29pm
Merthyr finished 3rd in the Championship so they would be fasttracked due to that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 5:33pm
Where are we getting this money to fund this Scarlets A team. ?!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 5:52pm
Ponty will break away from the Prem I'm pretty sure.

I have a feeling that the current WRU have a clear view of what thy want the pathway from junior clubs to region to be.

You're either on the train, or you're not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Merthyr finished 3rd in the Championship so they would be fasttracked due to that
I see. Would it be ring fenced do you know?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Ponty will break away from the Prem I'm pretty sure.

I have a feeling that the current WRU have a clear view of what thy want the pathway from junior clubs to region to be.

You're either on the train, or you're not.
Where would they go?

Edited by minded - 12 October 2015 at 12:14pm
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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